I think so, but that was right before I went to bed so I wuz sleepy…am I allowed to say that Allen Ginsberg, Joan Baez and Patti smith all fuckin' suck? So many bogus-ass people were drawn to the guy and here they test the upper limits of post-hippie obsequiousness…
I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?
― veronica moser, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:12 (four years ago) link
Smith and Ginsberg suck, Baez is such a marvelous camera prsence.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
*presence
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link
Glad to hear that it sounds like we finally at long last have some footage of Patti Smith talking about arthur rimbaud - always been interested to hear her thoughts on that obscure figure
― One Eye Open, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:18 (four years ago) link
she's embarrassing by my lights
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
her NYC accent is the best, though (Artur RAMBO)
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
ah I love Ginsberg, it's Smith and Baez I have no time for. Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful. As Alfred notes, her dressing up as Bob and fooling the whole crew is a highlight.
I watched Masked and Anonymous fairly recently, there's a bunch of good stuff in it.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:22 (four years ago) link
how did Ronson end up with this gig?
IIRC, the story went that Ronson was working in New York at the time. He was introduced to Dylan, and then was brought on as sort of a band leader. Ronson connected with McGuinn on the tour, leading to him producing McGuinn's Cardiff Rose album, which had most of the Revue players as the session band.
― a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
Ronson is quoted in the doc as saying, "He didn't even know my name."
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:27 (four years ago) link
Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful.
I thought she came off very well, and while she's no way his equal she's no hanger-on and reminds me a bit of Connie in The Godfather series: she can tell him to fuck off to his face b/c she knows exactly where every body is buried. And in her own right she's a wonderful camera presence.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:29 (four years ago) link
Ebert on "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid": "Bob Dylan plays a character named Alias, and should have used one. His screen presence makes him look as if he's the victim of a practical jokes involving itching powder."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
let's not forget "Hearts of Fire"
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link
Is that the one where he plays a chainsaw artist?
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link
no, that's All About Eve
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
Ebert otm.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Yeah, Baez doing some weird Perry Farrell moves to a jammed out Eight Miles High was some amazing viewing.
― MaresNest, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
you missed the part when she covers "Been Caught Stealing"!
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
I just watched an hour and 15 mins, and Bob is having the time of his life in the retrospective interviews…like when he says that Scarlet was going with "the leader of Kiss…"also, was there another era where he really went for it as a showman, as he is doing here? as opposed to my own experience, in person or on TV, in which he dodders around seemingly stoned and does not seemed concerned with the prerogatives nominally prized by show biz professionals?
― veronica moser, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
was there another era where he really went for it as a showman
he's *always* onstage
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:17 (four years ago) link
or rather "onstage" I guess. "song and dance man" etc.
is this showbiz enough for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:18 (four years ago) link
The answer to all of the questions raised in this thread about this movie are the same.
Cocaine.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:21 (four years ago) link
"Why is that person g-"Cocaine"How come Sam Shepard want-"Cocaine"What's with Dylan and acting all-"COCAINE
This movie made me have cocaine thoughts just watching.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:22 (four years ago) link
This movie out cocaines the Last Waltz.
THE LAST WALTZ
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:24 (four years ago) link
Was about to say earlier on when someone mentioned Dylan looking crazed.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:25 (four years ago) link
The use of Ginsberg slightly offended me: "Hey, here's this homo jester, let's laugh at him but he's kinda cool." Otoh most of these men and women act like children. When I got to the end, I almost understood why Reagan got elected.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
“Must be Santa” is ‘enough’ of a lot of things for me, but ‘showbiz’ not in the top 20
― One Eye Open, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link
I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving but admit that might be just because he reminds me so much of the Jewish side of my family
also liked how Ginsberg's facial hair/haircut changed throughout the film - one minute he looks like David Cross in a fake beard, the next hey its Wallace Shawn
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:04 (four years ago) link
Patti Smith is great, but her south Jersey accent is so strong, it's jarring.
― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
xpost Wasn't that the whole Boomer 70s trip? - post-hippie adolescent narcissism, the Me Generation and all that. Patti Smith sounded like Gibby in Blind Eye Sees All.
Ginsberg is just being Ginsberg, mad holy fool of the underground.
― llurk, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:25 (four years ago) link
Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…
― TS The Students vs. The Regents (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 14 June 2019 00:18 (four years ago) link
Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:00 (four years ago) link
And Joan Baez's dancing was fucking horrific and hilarious.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:01 (four years ago) link
xp That’s pretty much how she was portrayed in that Please Kill Me book, IIRC? (I have no opinion of her as an artist, tho I’ve heard a few cool/nice personal things)
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:09 (four years ago) link
but this isn't pejorative! I admire her for it.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:11 (four years ago) link
It's been years since I read Please Kill Me so don't recall that offhand but I'd concur.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:12 (four years ago) link
I dunno, Alfred. It truly makes me cringe.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:13 (four years ago) link
aside from her handful of high points, has always been a Boring Hippie
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:14 (four years ago) link
"Way out of her league" is wrong in that she got John Cale to produce her first album and moved on from album to album.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:14 (four years ago) link
I find much to dislike about her, as I pointed out, but you make her sound like a stupid groupie.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:15 (four years ago) link
I mean --- subtlety is something I admire if you're gonna "make the scene". And after a certain age it just comes across as embarrassing.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:15 (four years ago) link
"Stupid" or "groupie" are two things I wouldn't call her for sure.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:18 (four years ago) link
Not knowing her biography very well but that she broke out around 75 I was watching the doc and thinking she was like 20 or 21 maybe and cutting her some slack. But no, as I’m sure most of y’all already knew she was like 28/29 then.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 14 June 2019 02:16 (four years ago) link
I like her records but reading Just Kids really reinforced a negative impression for me of PS being phony. Many bogus scenes of her portraying herself as a wide-eyed naif, where like shes at a restaurant and she notices a guy wearing a hat that reminds her of a hat she read about in a Rimbaud poem and as if in a dream she finds herself compelled to approach him and begin reciting her poetry and then she's amazed to find out later that he was a famous musician or writer or art scene figure who thinks she'd be perfect for this upcoming project and can you imagine that, all because of Rimbaud's hat?
― One Eye Open, Friday, 14 June 2019 02:53 (four years ago) link
I can.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 02:56 (four years ago) link
Rimbaud's hat?
― TS The Students vs. The Regents (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 14 June 2019 03:12 (four years ago) link
patti smith really is a total fake in so many ways, someone who seems to have spent her entire life carefully and consciously trying to be the coolest person in the room, to the point where she's doing that even today (when it's hard to imagine she has anything to gain from it). but her best records + performances are so good it kinda doesn't matter to me.
and tbh while i will always love his early poetry, allen ginsberg's reputation + legacy looks a lot worse than patti smith's these days.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 14 June 2019 03:29 (four years ago) link
I’m watching it now, and Smith’s opening number at the folk club is pretty compelling.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:33 (four years ago) link
Lol @ this loopy flirt convo btw. Dylan and a woman at a party
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:39 (four years ago) link
And now Ratso does a postmortem interview with her about it? These ppl weir so f’in weird
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:41 (four years ago) link
Holy shot, I didn’t know Jim Gianopulos was involved in this.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:53 (four years ago) link