― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link
"My Way" is a piece of crap (I prefer Sid Vicious' version), and most of what he recorded after 1960-1961 is rather uneven, until 1968, when his output becomes unbearable. THAT'S when the style overwhelms the substance.
Lyrically and musically, the song always struck me as a piece of defiant hubris - the kind of thing you might sing before being sucked straight into hell. There is something about it that suggests the character has not only failed to triumph except in his own mind, but that he has somehow failed to see beyond his own needs. One could imagine, perhaps, a very rich and unhappy man singing that song.
― thee music mole, Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link
OK just to remind you, AMG says Frank Sinatra was arguably the most important popular music figure of the 20th century, his only real rivals for the title being Bing Crosby, Elvis Presley, and the Beatles. So this is about 'figures', ie great musicians who largely defined 20th century popular music. Can anyone seriously think Duke Ellington, James Brown, Billie Holliday, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davis, Ray Charlescome nowhere near the likes of Bing Crosby and Elvis Presley in terms of overarching importance? As you say, if you define importance as popularity then AMG's picks might be the ones, but that's not what the word conveys to me.
― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link
yeah, this whole "no, so-and-so was the most important" stuff is k-boring.
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link
and i agree this stuff is k-boring, but amg started it!
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Austin (Austin), Thursday, 3 February 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:04 (nineteen years ago) link
Those wacky AMG dudes! Sometimes they right, sometimes...but the above is one stupid-ass statement. Obviously, it's Louis Armstrong. I think Bing and the Chairman would've agreed...Elvis, I dunno, he would've said "that little negor fellow we bumped into on the Strip," or something. Or one of the Blackwoods maybe. That's one thing I never got about Elvis--why couldn't he have called up Sinatra and said, "I wish to work with the guys who play for you, that Bill Miller..Basie, is he available?" It's one of the reasons I say Sinatra over Elvis--I mean, OK, Elvis did use some good guys like in his band, like James Burton, they were fine, but he could've done so much more. "The New New Tennessee Waltz: Elvis and Jimmy Rowles Sing and Play Stick McGhee." "Elvis/Dolphy Summit at the Chicken Shack!!," an album of Louis Jordan tunes arr. by Oliver Nelson. "Delta Duck Got Webb-Foot: Presley, Jim Webb Style." "Hillbilly Bop: Elvis Presley and Sonny Stitt, Burnin' at the Village Vanguard." Instead, he hung out in Vegas and Memphis and ate Nutty Buddies. I don't get it...I guess he really didn't have any fuckin' idea what he was doing, and Sinatra did.
― fatsdominoruins (ddduncan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 February 2005 22:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Heidy- Ho, Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link
TS: Sinatra's racist banter vs. Eminem shooting gays
uh, you don't get it
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 February 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link
I can't stand Frank, either. Beautiful voice, I will grant you, but most of his music makes me want to kill myself. Depressing stuff when you think about it.
― The Biggest Regret of My Life (u s steel), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 17:01 (thirteen years ago) link
But that's so often what makes it great! I imagine you don't like Joy Division either.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link
He wasn't too popular with the GI's coming back in '45 and '46 either.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
XpostSongs for Swingin' Lovers, A Swingin' Affair, Come Fly With Me, Come Dance With Me and Sinatra's Swingin' Session!!! — all of which are great — are hardly depressing affairs.
― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I still have a vivid memory of being in the back seat of my parents' car as a youngster on a rainy day, and hearing the radio play Frank's version of "Cottage For Sale." Being a rock and roll loving youth, I thought this was the most lugubrious, horrible song ever, and it pretty much summed up what I thought of Sinatra in general. It took me another decade or so to come around to the swingier stuff, and even longer to "get" this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_hVwk3CXzk
― Glorified Lolcat (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:25 (thirteen years ago) link
yipee! i'm not alone. FS couldn't sing! the songwriting is terrible too, though i'm not sure if that's his fault. ― xenografia, Wednesday, February 2, 2005 4:20 AM (6 years ago) Bookmark
can we look into retroactive SBs?
― door to door legume salesman (San Te), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
also re: My Way, Frankie himself hated that song for many of the reasons listed ITT. He hated the lyrical content.
Jesus fuck, this thread is a monument to tin-eared idiocy.
― that's not funny. (unperson), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 01:46 (thirteen years ago) link
You just need to get him under your skin to appreciate him.
― Jim, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 13:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Man, fuck Frank Sinatra; I can't go out for Italian, go to a mall, go to the fucking dentist without hearing this shit nonstop!
― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:41 (six years ago) link
"music for people who don't really like music," is right
― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:44 (six years ago) link
I could listen to the sad-bastard ballad albums forever tbh, but fuck ever listening to the upbeat stuff
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:46 (six years ago) link
So you haven't got the world on a swing?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:59 (six years ago) link
geez Dan I, an awful lotta musicians like Sinatra.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:00 (six years ago) link
― that's not funny. (unperson), Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:46 AM (six years ago)
yeah, what he said.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:04 (six years ago) link
I'd rather listen to racists, homophobes, misogynists -- hell, even rockists -- than hear little boys crying wolf about it.― Heidy- Ho, Thursday, February 3, 2005 5:02 PM (thirteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha this is classic old skool ilm - rockism as being perhaps worse than racism, homophobia, and misogyny
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:17 (six years ago) link
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 6, 2018 1:46 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk man i feel like you need both sides
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:20 (six years ago) link
It took me forever to realize that Sinatra's style reminds me post of spoken word poets. You either buy into how he's using rhythm and emoting across the sung lines and it gels when the material is good or it just seems incredibly indulgent and induces terminal eye-rolling
― mh, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:42 (six years ago) link
are there any Sinatra songs with falsetto?
― Dominique, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:45 (six years ago) link
just not his "Both Sides Now"
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:45 (six years ago) link
lol i set it up, you knocked it down morbs
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:52 (six years ago) link
stick around, jack, it may show
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
besides disliking his musical output a lot there's something really off-putting about his face
like i try not to judge because people can't help their face shape, but he always makes me think of a sculpture bust that was so badly made it turned cursed and malevolent
― heliogabberlus, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:18 (six years ago) link
― Dan I., Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
first thing I picture when I hear his music in my head is the Maggiano's next to the Border's near my parents house blaring Sinatra out front.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:37 (six years ago) link
Man, fuck Frank Sinatra; I can't go out for Italian, go to a mall, go to the fucking dentist without hearing this shit nonstop!― Dan I., Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
weird, i don't hear him played as background music anywhere.
― vicious almond beliefs (crüt), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:40 (six years ago) link
Literally everywhere that wants to project "class" or "manliness" or "classy manliness"
― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:02 (six years ago) link