Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

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how will the poor be able to afford maybe a little knosh? I wonder how long before some of the social fabric in the urban areas begins to fray if this stuff gets worse. Cities like Newark were solidly middle /upper middle class (with sections of extreme poverty) until the forgotten and marginalized rioted.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 14:14 (sixteen years ago) link

A bit more localized, but still: wow, a lot to look forward to! - > http://www.slate.com/id/2188982
Here Comes the Next Mortgage Crisis
SUBPRIME WAS JUST THE BEGINNING. WAIT UNTIL CALIFORNIA'S PRIME BORROWERS START HANDING THEIR KEYS TO THE BANK.

quote:
"a coming wave of interest-rate resets in prime loans given to people with good credit that are just as bad, or worse, than we've seen in subprime."

Vichitravirya_XI, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link

lol "Next", lol "was" - subprime foreclosures haven't even peaked.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 20:11 (sixteen years ago) link

This is only 2007 data:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

StanM, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 21:00 (sixteen years ago) link

(FYI: "Current account balance This entry records a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms." )

StanM, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 21:02 (sixteen years ago) link

HOW MANY MEXICANS WERE AT THE APOCALYPSE

8 MILLION

WE ONLY HAD ONE PICKUP

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 21:43 (sixteen years ago) link

lol "subprime"

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 21:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Ok, can someone explain the behavior of the U.S. stock market to me?

Hurting 2, Friday, 18 April 2008 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link

(current behavior)

Hurting 2, Friday, 18 April 2008 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link

i assume something happened overnight?

Tracer Hand, Friday, 18 April 2008 16:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Well, these are the headlines from the WSJ:

Write-Downs Hit Citigroup Results

Associated Press
Citigroup posted a deep quarterly loss, booking at least $13.9 billion in write-downs stemming from its risk-taking ahead of the credit crisis and $3.1 billion in extra consumer-credit costs. The bank plans to cut 9,000 more jobs during the second quarter. 11:38 a.m.
• Deal Journal: Buyout Debt: Now Available in Stores
• MarketBeat: Live-Blogging the Conference Call
• Great Expectations for Merrill CEO
• Earnings Previews: Bank of America, Countrywide

Earnings Relief Rallies Stocks
Stocks surged, with major market benchmarks climbing by 1.5% or more, as encouraging earnings from Citigroup, Google, Caterpillar and others helped to turn aside some of the uneasiness that had hemmed in markets in recent weeks. 12:25 p.m.
• MarketBeat: MF Global to Investors: All Is Well.
• Deals of the Day: We'll Need You to Save Merrill Lynch.
• Data: Overview | Treasurys | Forex | Crude

Hurting 2, Friday, 18 April 2008 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean that explains the day's rally I guess, but I still find it bizarre. Is this just missing the long-term forest for the short-term trees?

Hurting 2, Friday, 18 April 2008 16:47 (fifteen years ago) link

perish the thought

Tracer Hand, Friday, 18 April 2008 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link

http://goldprice.org/james-turk/uploaded_images/Oil-Price-780567.GIF

laxalt, Friday, 18 April 2008 23:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Interesting.

Can anyone explain the phenomenon of the "petrodollar" to me, on that note? Are countries with stronger currenices more insulated against the current oil price spikes or are they purchasing with reserve dollars?

Hurting 2, Saturday, 19 April 2008 03:08 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, sorry what do the thousands on the side of that graph represent? Is that number of goldgrams?

Hurting 2, Saturday, 19 April 2008 03:09 (fifteen years ago) link

Hurting 2, the thousands on the side represent Ron Paul.

J0hn D., Saturday, 19 April 2008 03:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Blue line = Ron Paul's stiff bonarz

Hurting 2, Saturday, 19 April 2008 03:50 (fifteen years ago) link

(not trying to imply that the US should be on gold standard here, or that fiat is inherently bad, or any of that kind of stuff - more to point out the debasement of the dollar is long running, and that debasement of any currency must surely always lead to bubbles, because it encourages borrowing beyond means)

the chart further upthread showing $ vs CHF quartering since 1971 presumably implies that oil in CHF has not risen in the same way - i'll try find an oil/CHF chart to see if that is actually true or not

laxalt, Saturday, 19 April 2008 07:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Controlling the world's reserve currency distorts the market in your favor. The USA has progressively leveraged that distortion.

The reason the world has tolerated this shit is that, while unwinding that leverage would certainly be disasterous for the USA, it would also hurt the world economy to a lesser but still quite painful degree.

And the best thing about this is that there will be no comeuppance for the USA and the debased dollar. Do you hear me? No comeuppance!

Aimless, Saturday, 19 April 2008 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link

eotw fr

mkcaine, Saturday, 19 April 2008 22:47 (fifteen years ago) link

Another good article from n+1's "Interviews with a Hedge Fund Manager" series:

Financial Meltdown: Anonymous Hedge Fund Manager Returns

o. nate, Wednesday, 23 April 2008 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link

my "emerging markets" mutual fund is up 23% YTD! not that I had any money in it for most of last year.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 April 2008 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

Financial speculators reap profits from global hunger

By Stefan Steinberg

Global Research, April 24, 2008
wsws.org

A series of reports in the international media have drawn attention to the role of professional speculators and hedge funds in driving up the price of basic commodities—in particular, foodstuffs. The sharp increase in food prices in recent months has led to protests and riots in a number of countries across the globe.

On Tuesday, April 22, a UN spokesperson referred to a “silent tsunami” that threatens to plunge more than 100 million people on every continent into hunger. Josette Sheeran, executive director of the UN World Food Programme (WFP), noted: “This is the new face of hunger—the millions of people who were not in the urgent hunger category six months ago but now are.”

A recent article in the British New Statesman magazine, entitled “The Trading Frenzy That Sent Prices Soaring,” notes that increases in global population and the switch to bio-fuels are important factors in the rise of food prices, but then declares:

“These long-term factors are important, but they are not the real reasons why food prices have doubled or why India is rationing rice, or why British farmers are killing pigs for which they can’t afford feedstocks. It’s the credit crisis.”

The article states that the food crisis has developed over “an incredibly short space of time—essentially over the past 18 months.” It continues: “The reason for food ‘shortages’ is speculation in commodity futures following the collapse of the financial derivatives markets. Desperate for quick returns, dealers are taking trillions of dollars out of equities and mortgage bonds and ploughing them into food and raw materials. It’s called the ‘commodities super-cycle’ on Wall Street, and it is likely to cause starvation on an epic scale.”

World prices for basic commodities such as cereals, cooking oil and milk have risen steadily since 2000, but have escalated dramatically since the developing financial crisis in the US began to bite in 2006. Since the start of 2006, the average world price for rice has risen by 217 percent, wheat by 136 percent, corn by 125 percent and soybeans by 107 percent.

Under conditions of growing debt defaults arising from the US subprime crisis, speculators and hedge fund groups have increasingly switched their investments from high-risk “bundled” securities into so-called “stores of value,” which include gold and oil at one end of the spectrum and “soft commodities” such as corn, cocoa and cattle at the other. The article in the New Statesman points out that “speculators are even placing bets on water prices” and then concludes:

“Just like the boom in house prices, commodity price inflation feeds on itself. The more prices rise, and big profits are made, the more others invest, hoping for big returns. Look at the financial web sites: everyone and their mother is piling into commodities.... The trouble is that if you are one of the 2.8 billion people, almost half the world’s population, who live on less than $2 a day, you may pay for these profits with your life.”

Investment in “soft commodities” is currently highly recommended by leading market analysts. According to Patrick Armstrong, a manager at Insight Investment Management in London, “Raw materials can prove to be the best investment class for hedge funds because the market is so inefficient. This results in more chances for profit.”

Much of the international speculation in food commodities takes place on the Chicago Stock Exchange (CHX), where a number of hedge funds, investment banks and pension funds have substantially increased their activities in the past two years. Since January of this year alone, investment activity in the agricultural sector has risen by a quarter at the CHX, and, according to the Chicago firm Cole Partners, involvement by hedge funds in the raw material sector has trebled in the past two years to reach a total of $55 billion.

Large-scale investors such as hedge and pension funds buy futures—shares in basic goods and foodstuffs to be delivered at a fixed date in the future. When the price of the commodity rises significantly between the time of the investment and the time of delivery, the investor is able to take home a large profit.

In light of the current food crisis, substantial returns of profit are guaranteed. According to CHX figures, wheat futures (for delivery in December) are expected to rise by at least 73 percent, soybeans by 52 percent, and soy oil by 44 percent.

Major ecological disasters, such as the recent drought in Australia, which hit food production and drive up basic commodity prices, are good news for the corporate investor.

Substantially reduced harvests in Australia and Canada this year have led to soaring wheat prices. Deutsche Bank has estimated that the price for corn will double, while the price for wheat will rise by 80 percent in the short term.

Such ecological disasters, which can ruin ordinary farmers and mean poverty for millions through increased food prices, are an aspect of the “inefficiency” of the raw materials market referred to above, which currently makes “soft commodities” such an attractive prospect for major speculators.

Deadly greed

An article headlined “Deadly Greed” in the current edition of the German weekly Der Spiegel gives some details of the activities of hedge funds in food market speculation. The magazine cites the example of the hedge fund Ospraie, which is generally regarded as the biggest of the management funds currently dealing in basic foodstuffs.

The manager of the fund, Dwight Anderson, is nicknamed “the raw materials king.” Already, in the summer of 2006, Anderson was recommending the “extraordinary profitability” of agricultural crops to his shareholders. While Ospraie is reluctant to publicise its profit levels from speculation in basic commodities, a leading German investor is less reticent.

Andreas Grünewald started up his Münchner Investment Club (MIC) in 1989 with seed capital equal to just €15,000. MIC now controls a volume of €50 million, of which €15 million is from investment in raw materials.

According to Grünewald, “Raw materials are the mega-trend of the decade,” and his company intends to intensify its involvement in both water and agricultural stocks. MIC investment in wheat alone has already yielded profit levels of 93 percent for the 2,500 members of the club.

The Spiegel article points out that MIC and its members give little thought to the catastrophic consequences of their speculative investment policy for undeveloped countries. “Most of our members are rather passive and orientated to profit,” Grünewald notes.

MIC, with its €50 million, is a minor player compared to the finance giant ABN Amro, which recently acquired a unique certificate allowing it to speculate on behalf of smaller investors on the CHX.

In the wake of the hunger revolts that took place a few weeks ago, ABN Amro put out a prospectus noting that India has enforced a ban on exports of rice, which, together with poor harvests in a number of countries, has led to a worldwide decline in rice reserves. “Now,” ABN Amro notes in its prospectus, “it is possible for the first time to have a share in the number one foodstuff in Asia.”

According to the Spiegel report, those responding to the ABN Amro appeal were able to realise a 20 percent rate of profit in the space of three weeks—a period that saw a huge increase in investment in rice in Chicago and other major centres.

Biofuel investment

Another particularly lucrative investment sector contributing substantially to the current global food crisis is biofuels. Initially championed as a means of protecting the environment, biofuels have become increasingly identified by big business as a profitable alternative to increasingly expensive oil. Within the space of a few years, biofuel has become a booming private industry capable of generating large rates of profit.

Huge tracts of land across the planet have in recent years been switched from food crops to the production of ethanol or biofuel, aimed primarily as a supplement to oil-based gasoline. Next year, the use of US corn for ethanol is forecast to rise to 114 million tonnes—nearly a third of the entire projected US crop.

In the words of Jean Ziegler, the United Nations special rapporteur on the right to food, the switch to biofuels at the expense of traditional forms of agriculture is nothing less than a “crime against humanity.”

Although maize production worldwide is growing, the increase is being more than absorbed by biofuel diversification. According to the World Bank, global maize production increased by 51 million tonnes between 2004 and 2007. During that time, biofuel production in the US alone (mostly ethanol) rose by 50 million tonnes, absorbing almost the entire global increase.

Subsidised by the US government, American farmers have diverted fully 30 percent of corn production into the ethanol scheme, driving up the cost of other, more expensive, grains that are being bought as substitutes for animal feed.

The European Union, India, Brazil and China all have their own targets to increase biofuels. The EU has declared that by 2010, 5.75 percent of all gasoline sold to motorists in Europe must stem from biofuel production. This month, a UK law enforced a mandatory mix of 2.5 percent biofuel in gasoline sold to motorists. A similar law stipulating a staggered 10 percent increase in biofuel share in gasoline was recently struck down in Germany following opposition from the auto industry, as well as ordinary car owners who would be forced to buy new cars to accommodate the new fuel.

In addition to the rapidly rising price of basic commodities as a result of the decreased production of grains for food purposes, the switch to crop production of biofuels has served to orient food prices to the high price of fuel. An equivalence is emerging between the price of food and the price of oil.

According to Josette Sheeran of the World Food Programme: “We are seeing food in many places in the world priced at fuel levels,” with increasing quantities of food “being bought by energy markets” for biofuels.

With oil topping $100 a barrel, the biofuel sector is currently regarded as a potential source of huge returns for investors. The drive for maximum profits by the biofuels sector was summed up in the advertisement for a congress held in 2006, which declared:

“Biofuels Finance and Investment World is Europe’s definitive investor congress focusing exclusively on the value chain evolving around the new biofuels economy. Investors and financial institutions will gather with key industry stakeholders to discuss future investment opportunities, the risks and areas with huge potential for profit.”

The April 22 edition of Money Week recommends that investors stung by the subprime crisis switch their funds to the lucrative biofuels market. Money Week sides with Fortune magazine in identifying the oil multinational Royal Dutch Shell group as a guarantor of good returns: “We love it because it makes huge profits and is very cheap, but apparently it also has a large stake in Iogen, a Canadian firm with an exciting-sounding ‘potential breakthrough in ethanol technology.’”

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link

ya, letting people gamble financially on food and oil is a great idea.

bush's speech this morning: DRILLING IN ANWR WILL FIX GAS PRICES, what're you people fucking retarded?

GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:07 (fifteen years ago) link

yes

El Tomboto, Thursday, 1 May 2008 00:42 (fifteen years ago) link

Who was the politician just on the Lou Dobbs show about credit cards.

And - is he for real?

cherry blossom, Monday, 12 May 2008 00:12 (fifteen years ago) link

It's yet another $200 barrel of oil = apocalypse00 barrel of oil = apocalypse article, but the comments on it are funny in an intensely scary sort of way.

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 12 May 2008 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link

lol america

Tracer Hand, Monday, 12 May 2008 21:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Wayne Flanagan, a RE/MAX agent who sells bank-owned properties, said in zip codes like 30310 and 30315 values have taken a nosedive faster than public officials can account for.

"There are some price ranges like $20,000-$80,000 where 90 percent of the properties on the market are foreclosures," Flanagan said. "You've got one bank competing against another. It's a spiraling situation, downward."

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 01:42 (fifteen years ago) link

At least two real estate agents stop into Sweeney's each week looking for a job as bartenders or waitresses, he said.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 01:53 (fifteen years ago) link

People of America do not worry. The Government is pleased to tell you that gasoline prices went down last month

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid0804.pdf

laxalt, Saturday, 17 May 2008 06:39 (fifteen years ago) link

THE US IS DOOMED TO CI-ISRAILI MONEYTARY HODGEPODGE IN LIGHT OF THE CHINAMAN WHO LEARNED MATH SINCE HE WAS 3

usic, Saturday, 17 May 2008 07:02 (fifteen years ago) link

LIBERTARIAN RULE IN THAT THE CYBORGIAN ELITE WILL RULE CAPITAL TO A CERTAIN EXTENT? IS ZUCKERMAN A FLASH IN THE PAN OR AN ARMY OF OVERMEN

usic, Saturday, 17 May 2008 07:03 (fifteen years ago) link

COMICBOOK TROLL THINKS FOR HIMSLEF!!!

Aimless, Saturday, 17 May 2008 17:45 (fifteen years ago) link

Anybody have any thoughts on the future for dollar pegs in Gulf States, China and others?

Kondratieff, Monday, 26 May 2008 12:07 (fifteen years ago) link

The Gulf States will not need to unpeg from the dollar anytime soon, unless there is a switch to pricing oil in euros. Oil is its own currency and it is stronger than it has ever been. This insulates them from most of the problems associated with a weak national currency.

China is a very interesting question. I'm sure they are rather perturbed about the weak dollar, but more in terms of the US Treasury debt they hold. However, China can hold fast to their dollar peg for some time, yet.

China can purchase many of the imports they need (aside from oil) from the USA. The capital they are accumulating can mostly be absorbed in building their domestic infrastructure for some time yet. If they are looking to make foreign investments, they can buy out banks and corporations in the uSA for a while. Under those circumstances, the dollar peg will not hurt their basic export market or their capital expenditures.

They can sit tight for a while, I think.

Aimless, Monday, 26 May 2008 17:19 (fifteen years ago) link

my hollow soul chuckles each time I see one of those Cadillac advertisements on a major television network, while GM buys out another 19,000 employees' contracts because they can no longer move Escalades.

El Tomboto, Friday, 30 May 2008 17:25 (fifteen years ago) link

i hope the die-hard reagonomics people can now agree that inflation causes wage demands rather than vice versa

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 14:29 (fifteen years ago) link

shorter washpo, krugman, et al: "the silver lining so far is that this time, wage earners appear happy to be screwed!"

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 14:31 (fifteen years ago) link

Wage and Price rises are always a symptom never a cause.

Kondratieff, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 14:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Don't know if you guys think a poll is a good idea for future oil prices (Or any other commodities). Recession led falls or continuing rises - where do you stand?

Kondratieff, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 14:41 (fifteen years ago) link

I love how all these people say this current downturn is "self-confirming", as if the fears of people are what caused this crisis in the first place. Not the wholesale deregulation of financial markets and criminally lopsided taxation policies... nope, not that at all. People feared it, so it's all your fault.

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link

bears cause bear markets!!! if only they'd leave us bulls alone!!

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

http://pics4.city-data.com/ctrends/ctr15576.png

What do you guys make of Utica's seeming resistance to downward trend?

Kondratieff, Thursday, 5 June 2008 17:04 (fifteen years ago) link

Everyone's just buying from everyone else. It's a little game they play.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 June 2008 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

we gonna die

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Friday, 6 June 2008 18:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Is it just me or do investors have an extra hard time believing the Dow can go below a nice round number like 12000?

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 19:54 (fifteen years ago) link


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