― flappy bird, Friday, 9 August 2019 04:38 (two years ago) link
pitchfork didn't kill him
― Simon H., Friday, 9 August 2019 05:03 (two years ago) link
Standing room only on the sidewalk outside the Met for David Berman. pic.twitter.com/IO4TH1XHkJ— Brian Heater (@bheater) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 9 August 2019 05:30 (two years ago) link
need more embedded tweets by indie guys to atone (xp)
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Friday, 9 August 2019 05:33 (two years ago) link
That article doesn't not read like a composite of several of the ones I read yesterday that preceded it
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 9 August 2019 10:50 (two years ago) link
More kind words: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/david-berman-made-us-feel-less-alone
― EvR, Friday, 9 August 2019 11:30 (two years ago) link
There's something so annoying to me about the new yorker piece. maybe it's in part bc of all of the bad press nyt has been getting lately bc of their constant faux pas's and i am just lazily conflating them and the new yorker, but these days i get almost angry when i see the new yorker's dumb logo and pretentious faux old graphic design etc. wow! shocker that some person has an oblique connection with him from back in the day that they can work into their article about his life and death.
as if I were strolling through a gorgeous museum whose construction I’d glimpsed through a peephole
like wtf. there is that book "miller bukowski and their enemies" (yeah, i know but.) which i think sums it up well... the posthumous adulation for people that one never would have deigned to shake hands with during their creative period or actual messiness of their lives. i'm so sure that the writer gave a fuck or ever thought about him while he was like, living in a literal crackhouse or whatever. but thankfully now he can be packaged safely! i mean, i realize i probably sound like ppl who complained about kurt cobain obits back in the day, but there's something so insulting about it. a comeback from addiction makes money and a death from related issues does too. it's just gross to me. whatever...
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:10 (two years ago) link
"Listening to his songs, I always feel an active wonder."
there are not enough "ughs" in the world!
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:22 (two years ago) link
The New Yorker suxx... not in the same way as the NY Times (whose offenses are worse than mere “faux pas”), but I always regret clicking into & reading a New Yorker “essay.” I guess they still run long, investigative articles that are worthwhile.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:25 (two years ago) link
if i ever felt an "active wonder" listening to something I would ask my gp to up my depends scrip.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:26 (two years ago) link
― flappy bird, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:28 (two years ago) link
yah, and despite my bile i think they have actually gotten much better in the last 2-3 years. but, it's always so jarring to see an attempt to sum up someone's life/death mated w the dumb happy caricature face and other graphic design stuff that i guess is supposed to be super-endearing but to me is just like, borderline-enraging at this point. but whatever. i have issues!
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:29 (two years ago) link
their long, investigative articles remain worthwhile
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:30 (two years ago) link
i have issues!
So do I -- they accumulate on my living room table week after week!
ummm I think y'all are doing some very strange projecting onto that very sweet & mild obit essay but w/e
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:30 (two years ago) link
― tylerw, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:39 (two years ago) link
lol, yes and see my 2-3 yrs thing... their longform stuff has if anything improved in the last couple yrs imo
the obit essay bummed me. likely i am strangely projecting. but why should everything be neatly wrapped up into a new yorker obit or pitchfork piece? his life was evidently severely messy, as most of ours probably are upon reasonable inspection, and the tone of her piece rubs me the wrong way.
Berman’s friends were supporting him, caring for him; his record label, Drag City, was, too, even housing him in recent months. His fans were eager for his tour, which was to begin this weekend. We wish he hadn’t suffered; we’re grateful he existed. We loved him to the max.
um, ok? it just seems weirdly antiseptic. i mean i guess I am just bitter for the very fact of him killing himself, and it's spilling over, but i hate the attempt to wrap it up into a neat package by legacy media or whatever.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:45 (two years ago) link
Death, unfortunately, is great PR. But I don't see what makes this piece any worse (or any better) than any of the other mostly identical 15 or 20 I've read over the past 24 hours.
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:50 (two years ago) link
I liked the New Yorker piece and I don't really understand these criticisms.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:06 (two years ago) link
As advanced as we consider ourselves,we still allow ad copy to pander to us.The scam exposed, it endures with our permissionas a parallel narrative running beside our liveswhere we sit with an unbuttered baked potatoand a warm beer in multiple versions of Akronleavened with foreclosure, heartburn and rain.
Great-grandfather’s hobbies, whether they be botany or magic,can barely make sense to a boy named Occupant III.
Their genius was to let us criticize themuntil it became boring and obvious to do so.
Meanwhile they were up ahead, busily constructing a worldin which boring and obvious criticismwas about the worst thing you could do,and when we reached them in time they were waitingwith their multiple Akrons,always one link ahead in the chain of consent.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 16:22 (two years ago) link
OTOH I listened to the Kreative Kontrol interview and I found the host's joviality painful--I guess to no fault of his own since it's not like he knew Berman was going to die, but some of his readings of things annoyed me, particularly when he missed the fact that drinking margaritas at the mall is obviously supposed to evoke something depressing, not something "fun"--in fact it's the bad simulacra of fun that makes it especially depressing. I think the host even said something about it being like a "resort"--no dude, it's fucking called "margaritas at the mall"! Not at a resort!
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:26 (two years ago) link
man, don't you just hate it when people are wrong
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 16:35 (two years ago) link
just seems fucked up in light of the overall thrust of his lyrics and stuff. but whatever... everything sucks, for real.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:58 (two years ago) link
(meant for the people defending the new yorker article).
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:00 (two years ago) link
ayo those are his friends and colleagues, not a gaggle of "indie" (your word) edgelords who deleted their negative tweets/subtweets (in shame?)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:08 (two years ago) link
didn't know his hatred for his dad was so well deserved
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:19 (two years ago) link
― sleeve, Friday, 9 August 2019 17:21 (two years ago) link
There's a lot of love in this, I think:
― djh, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:00 (two years ago) link
I've now read the New Yorker thing and I think it's fine for what it is, but I agree w/del about how it feels a little weird to be summing up the "messiness" of this guy's life in a patly written thinkpiece; especially when he has so many interviews online that you can go back and read to really get a sense of who he was, what he was about, and the stuff he was dealing with. But these third-person essays aren't written for me, I don't need the hundredth piece quoting the lyrics of "People" or whatever; I guess they're intended to bring DCB to the attn. of readers who weren't aware of him (...but even then, in this context, it's like... ok? better late than never, I guess?)
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:02 (two years ago) link
if i ever felt an "active wonder" listening to something I would ask my gp to up my depends scrip.― dell (del), Friday, August 9, 2019 4:26 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― dell (del), Friday, August 9, 2019 4:26 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:07 (two years ago) link
also wb dell
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:08 (two years ago) link
There's a lot of love in this, I think:https://www.caughtbytheriver.net/2019/08/caught-by-the-reaper-david-berman/?fbclid=IwAR3ZYKGgnYaKIFSm3WVPNKIdUrVfInq8biDBIyt2qD6uNDX8tsTjdJR__wo
Thanks for posting this.
― EvR, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:32 (two years ago) link
I hate comparing two albums due to their creators fates, but this really reminds me of Vic Chestnutt’s ‘At the Cut’. Both come from this place of clear pain and oblivion (their word) but they seem to somehow be conquering it through wit and melody
― Heez, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:59 (two years ago) link
*whispers* you dont need a scrip for depends
― gbx, Friday, 9 August 2019 19:16 (two years ago) link
This Nastanovich quote, mentioned above:
It was enlightening to have such a talented friend at a young age and realize that the talent wasn’t always a blessing.
Is easily the most satisfying eulogy to the man I've read over the past couple of days. That Berman would've been so concise in his delineation of human experience (its joy, questioning, confusion, suffering) suggests a hyper-sensitivity that could easily turn a cloudy day into an unbearable tragedy. What comforts me through his passing, aside from the fact that he left behind such a generous and rich body of work, is the hope that, along with the "storms" that his eulogists have repeatedly referred to as defining his life, there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 9 August 2019 19:29 (two years ago) link
thanks map. it fucking sucks and yeah there is projection involved as a given in that we probably all know ppl who have been like, "okay, outta here" and subsequently it always brings up a lot of fucked-up feelings. they say that funerals and other associated rites are for the survivors more than the departed, and so this is my way of honoring him atm. if he was selfish enough to kill himself then i think it's ok for me to be selfish enough to throw a little fit about the state of, what'd i call it up there, "legacy media"? it's all good. i wasn't even a huge silver jews fan but i was a huge fan of what david berman stood for -- to me, in my mind. a sort of demonstrative naked honesty and unwillingness to compromise and a staunch if shocking ability to make (literal!) poetry of it.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 19:42 (two years ago) link
there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
otm. I like how Bob Nastanovich always seems to make a point to call attention to DBs humor. We all know his lyrics were wry and funny, but Bob will go out of his way to refer to DB as a "poet and humorist" and things like that. Beyond just "oh yeah he was a real funny guy", making sure he gets credit as someone who worked hard to make people laugh with his work.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 20:18 (two years ago) link
i’d recommended the new purple mountains album to a colleague last week and as we normally bond over megan thee stallion and suchlike wasn’t sure what she’d think about it... she loved it and did some first listen notes: GeneralLyrics! This man is a poet non? (ed: googled, OK, yes, he is) By turns jaunty/mellow Americana with sad sad sad lyrics. He sounds so lonely.That's just the way that I feel - super, love this song, more poppy than the rest. Can see why you’ve listened to it so much.Snow is falling in Manhattan – “salts the stoop and scoops the cat in” lovely. This song feels like being wrapped up in a blanket in front of a fire which fits lyrics, obv. Feels like someone longing for security and safety. Liked the jarring use of smithereens. Eesh. Shes making friends I'm turning stranger - Any song w tantamount in the opening line = cool. I know it’s about him but I like the way he draws this woman. Smalltown superstar. A bright character. The rest kind of blend together tbh but words! Fond of fuxking fuxking fond of me. Stand the standard distance distant strangers stand apart. Happy hour got us by the balls. Try to drown thoughts in gin worst ideas know how to swim. On the music, I like the shuffly guitar and drums. I don’t know how to describe it. Wooshywooshy softness. doesn’t sound like the words which, if you were to match music to it, would prob sound like screaming in pain.and then next day she was “dave berman died :(“
― Fizzles, Friday, 9 August 2019 20:30 (two years ago) link
if he was selfish enough to kill himself then i think it's ok for me to be selfish enough to throw a little fit about the state of, what'd i call it up there, "legacy media"? it's all good.
Eh, I'd say not really. You're two entirely different people making two very different decisions for two very different reasons. I totally get the point you're making about these hermetically-sealed obituaries to be packaged and sold so people can read about them for 30 seconds and then maybe click on an ad, and it irritates me too, but why let yourself be surprised? If I'm understanding you correctly, your issue is with ad-driven media and isn't at all exclusive to the case of David Cloud Berman.
along with the "storms" that his eulogists have repeatedly referred to as defining his life, there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
Yep. In the wake of a suicide, it's natural to point to some of the gloomier attitudes in the songs and be like "see! see!" but we're talking about the guy who wrote "I'm gonna shine out in the wild kindness and hold the world to its word." The unwillingness to compromise, the punk principles (the Germs tattoo!) were a huge part of what I liked about him, even if that mentality fueled a lot of his less hopeful perspectives too. Ultimately, I believe he was a self-righteous force for good, as evidenced by the fact that I wasn't the only fan to receive a few of his apparently abundant gestures of friendliness.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 20:57 (two years ago) link
I can't help but contrast the dead American Jewish genius with the dead Canadian Jewish genius and note the similarities and contrasts between Berman and Cohen.
First of all I say "Jewish" but it's not actually about Judaism, it's about (firstly) a relationship with spirituality and a desire to capture the infinite, and (secondly) about having zero practical musical talent and seeing that as an asset rather than a burden (and it absolutely is an asset, as a songwriter).
There is the fact that Canadian songwriters are unable to make references to Canadian places-- America is The Place, Canada is not The Place, and so making a reference to Portland or San Francisco is within the territory of the collective human consciousness, but making a reference to Medicine Hat or Quebec City seems comedic, like the songwriter is suddenly in drag and doing a bit.
There is the fact that Berman was a prodigious brainstormer and Cohen was a prodigious editor-- every line of a Berman song was an epiphany or a wordplay more powerful than the entire song of a lesser songwriter, but the lines were seldom effectively unified to a single thesis-- Cohen, on the other hand, was devoted to a thesis, and didn't allow for hairiness or inefficiency, but his songs were not as confounding as Berman's songs were.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 9 August 2019 21:14 (two years ago) link
xposts Yes, fair enough...
aside from that, I'd been scared to listen to purple mountains over the past day or so but man it's actually a really life-affirming record? to my ears. Like the honky-tonk vibe on the first track only escalates the dude you just need another drink or a nap thing. get out of the metaphorical west and into the actual space away from your mind. is that a crazy reading? it's something like felt's all the people i like are those that are dead. yes! exactly! so taken to its logical conclusion it's like a health powder. be those crystal spires my man
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 21:17 (two years ago) link
I listened to it today, and enjoyed it; listening felt like the appropriate tribute, and the record did feel more affirming than sad. Though "Nights That Won't Happen" definitely hits you.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 21:23 (two years ago) link
It is life-affirming. It's a beautiful work of art. It's a gift to us. Its very existence affirms the life-time spent making it. This is easy for me to say because I wasn't a personal friend of his, and I don't know for a fact that he died on his own terms. But I suspect he did. And just because someone dies on their own terms doesn't mean their life was meaningless, or that they didn't enhance other peoples lives while they were here.
I feel the album can be safely summarized by these lines from the first track:
A setback can be a setup for a comeback if you don't let upbut this kind of hurting won't heal.The end of all wanting is all I've been wantingand that's just the way that I feel.
You don't have to be Ian Curtis's former bandmates to retroactively read that the way it was intended.
I will miss more songs from him, constantly.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 21:38 (two years ago) link
been feeling the comforting intention of Snow is Falling in Manhattan
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:22 (two years ago) link
different kind of sadness but this reminded me of another dead canadian genius
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:28 (two years ago) link
these hermetically-sealed obituaries to be packaged and sold so people can read about them for 30 seconds and then maybe click on an ad
I gotta say, I really dont get the characterization of pieces like that NYer obit as being crass commercial clickbait cash-ins? Surely there are more popular and clickworthy things that could have taken up that space than a personal essay-obit on a marginal poet-songwriter who probably didn't sell 20k copies of any single album? Like whatever your criticisms of that piece might be, clearly the writer was a huge fan and had an honest connection to him & his music and wanted to express something about it. Whether she did his life & work justice or not, she obviously wasn't sitting thinking "I've gotta quickly churn some uplifting words out about this ultra-minor-celebrity to get those newyorker.com pageviews up to our weekly quota!"
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:37 (two years ago) link
I get that people feel protective of him but it's not exactly like post-Cobain vultures feasting on his legacy. A lot of writers had a strong enough connection to his music taht they felt compelled to write something, and in the 24hrs they had to turn around a piece some hit the mark better than others but I dont think anyone is getting rich off of David Berman obits this week.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:38 (two years ago) link
Patiently waiting forever for the album made by Berman, Bejar and Malkmus, which Berman rejected on completion.— Judy MillerSilverman (@motormouthmedia) August 9, 2019
I recall seeing it on the Dropbox I share with the studio and thinking I shouldn’t listen to someone’s unfinished album. There is a code there.— Carl Newman (@ACNewman) August 9, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:40 (two years ago) link
Yeah that’s pretty wild — is it the same songs as on the purple mountains LP or other stuff entirely?
― tylerw, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:44 (two years ago) link
excellent posts from fgti
― budo jeru, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:55 (two years ago) link