Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

good news, tremendous progress!

WASHINGTON — The time is now for lawmakers to come together and pass new laws for “meaningful” background checks on gun purchasers, Mr. Trump said Friday as he left the White House for a political fund-raiser in Southampton, N.Y., followed by a vacation at his golf club in New Jersey.

Less than a week after mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, left 31 people dead, Mr. Trump said there was “tremendous” support for “really common-sense sensible, important background checks.”

The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, was “on board,” Mr. Trump said. And the gun lobby, which in the past has been effective in resisting such measures, would “get there.”

"we'll see what happens"

The organization [NRA] has succeeded in the past in convincing Mr. Trump to abandon certain gun control efforts. Both Mr. Trump and Mr. McConnell have opposed legislation to expand background checks, including a bill the House passed earlier this year.

So, why now?

“Time goes by,” Mr. Trump said. “I think I have a greater influence now over the Senate and over the House.”

excuse me.

excuse me for just a moment.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ok, i'm good

Does anyone else feel like this?

The It Could Happen Here podcast series didn't seem farfetched to me.

The rhetoric of the American right wing looks like other preludes to civil conflict. You've seen the inflammatory NRA ads. Right wingers "joking" about exterminating liberals are not isolated incidents. There may only be a few million in that extreme camp, but that's enough to shut down the nation for a years-long insurgency.

With the right wing regularly alleging voting fraud, with Trump insiders like Michael Cohen talking openly about the likelihood of Trump refusing to abide by 2020 election results, I fear winter 2020-21 may be precarious.

The only thing that saves us: our leaders are too fucking stupid to realize their grandest fascist schemes.

at least one of em

You don't have to be smart. You just have to give your followers license.

if a population is increasingly armed as 1. percentage of population 2. lethality and quantity of weapons/ammo, it seems like a social/governmental refusal to actively DISARM (that is to actually require relinquishment or siezure of them) would eventually reach a tipping point? at that point, uncontrolled armed conflicts, then resolution, and enforced disarmament by any number of schemes. reality never goes as smoothly as idle thought like this, though.

i guess i think that it might be possible to limit continuing sales and distribution into general population, but with the amount of stuff out there, i'm not so convinced that it would stop crazy randos from crazy rando-ing periodically. from a practical intervention standpoint, i think ppl wanting to get faster control should focus on licensing, limiting, and seizing ALL ammo. like taking it away. all of it. the argument that ammo is not addressed by constitutional language seems light, but the argument for individual rights to bear arms is no stronger imo, might as well run it hard and take that shit.

everything else has failed, but America should really get behind a Repeal The 2nd Amendment Because ZS movement. this is our tipping point

it's not that i disagree with a repeal or significant alteration in 2nd, but i do think a stable survivable pluralistic society can be worked out of the language that exists- it's mostly NRA-style shit and white terror that could prevent it. correction: that is violently deadset on preventing it.

also amendment process is...not good as currently aligned. seems like many founders wanted easier modification, but many also wanted some super shitty mods. so parse that accordingly.

You don't have to be smart. You just have to give your followers license.

otm

maybe if we go to space we can exploit the need to make special space laws for space guns

Just amend the 2nd Amendment to restore its original (now rather irrelevant) intent. From Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens' Six Amendments: How and Why We Should Change the Constitution:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed.

Rebecca Solnit is always so good.

If someone says "they're coming to take our guns away," ask who they mean by "our." The scary thing is nearly half of white men are armed, far higher numbers than any other group. The good news is that they're only (including white male children) about a third of the population.

"Gun ownership is more common among men than women, and white men are particularly likely to be gun owners. Among those who live in rural areas, 46% say they are gun owners, compared with 28% of those who live in the suburbs and 19% in urban areas. There are also significant differences across parties, with Republican and Republican-leaning independents more than twice as likely as Democrats and those who lean Democratic to say they own a gun (44% vs. 20%)... About four-in-ten men (39%) say they personally own a gun, compared with 22% of women. And while 36% of whites report that they are gun owners, about a quarter of blacks (24%) and 15% of Hispanics say they own a gun. White men are especially likely to be gun owners: About half (48%) say they own a gun, compared with about a quarter of white women and nonwhite men (24% each) and 16% of nonwhite women.."

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

Among those who live in rural areas, 46% say they are gun owners, compared with 28% of those who live in the suburbs and 19% in urban areas.

adding to this, ime many of the people who own guns in urban areas are relatively recent arrivals from rural areas

Another one of these 20 something white supremacists from the Internet attempted a murder spree at the Al-Noor Mosque in Bærum, Norway, with a pistol and 2 shotguns. He reportedly announced this attack in advance one of the Nchans, paying tribute to Christchurch and El Paso shooters. Perhaps thanks to entrance security installed after the Christchurch attack, or Norwegian gun restrictions, he only managed to wound one before being overpowered by worshippers.

The shooter killed a woman earlier in the day, it turns out. There's always misogynist violence involved.

*sigh*

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/philadelphia-police-shooting-today-multiple-officers-shot-in-active-and-ongoing-situation-live-updates-2019-08-14/?fbclid=IwAR0kuYRuipSR7iz1rDznO1zKyILJHh3NNpmiEOP8h1razpCScFTXzVaDc_A

The only good cop etc

Nah

the only good fbclid=IwAR0kuYRuipSR7iz1rDznO1zKyILJHh3NNpmiEOP8h1razpCScFTXzVaDc_A

Police in Midland, Texas said on Saturday two gunmen were at large after a reported shooting at a branch of the Home Depot hardware store in Odessa.

Local and national media reported the Texas Department of Public Safety said several people including an officer had been shot. The University of Texas of the Permian Basin was on lockdown.

In a first post on its Facebook page on Saturday afternoon, the Midland police department noted reports of “an active shooter” at the Home Depot in Odessa and said: “For the safety of the public and law enforcement please stay away from the area and stay in your homes. We will update will more information as soon as possible.”

In an update, the department posted: “We believe there are two shooters in two separate vehicles. One suspect is believed to be at the Cinergy in Midland and the other is believed to be driving on Loop 250 in Midland.”

The Cinergy in Midland is a multiplex cinema.

The police statement added: “The two vehicles in question are: gold/white small Toyota truck and a USPS Postal Van. Please stay away from these areas and stay indoors.”

The White House said Donald Trump had been briefed. The president, who was monitoring the approach of Hurricane Dorian on Saturday, flew to his golf club in Virginia earlier, from the Maryland retreat at Camp David.

20-30 shot, according to various twitter sources, but who knows right now

one at mobile, alabama last night too

NYT:

Five people were killed and more than 20 others were injured in a brazen daylight drive-by mass shooting near the West Texas cities of Midland and Odessa on Saturday, as a gunman drove on the highways and streets opening fire on residents, motorists and shoppers, the authorities said.

Seems this one was unplanned, just a gun-nut that cracked during a traffic stop. Odessa/Midland is among the most pro-NRA metropolitan areas in the nation, and honestly, if one's seeking to bring home just how harmful the NRA interpretation of the 2A is, this event just may.

http://rmcguirephoto.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/DSC33771.jpg

I don't know what that's supposed to convey about the culture of a place that a picture of the landscape in El Paso, Dayton, Gilroy, Virginia Beach, Poway, Thousand Oaks, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Santa Fe, Parkland, Sutherland Springs, Las Vegas, Orlando, San Bernardino, Roseburg, Waco, Isla Vista, Fort Hood, Washington DC, Newtown, Aurora, Blacksburg, Santee, Columbine, or any of the hundreds of other sites of American mass shootings in the last 20 years wouldn't.

otm

"metropolitan area" is a bit of an oversell

Random folks on twitter are saying the Texas police scrubbed the 36-year old white boy killer's social media profile off the internet before releasing his name. They suggest this will allow white supremacists to keep sites hidden.

and you believe this?

Every time this happens gun sales and gun manufacturer stocks go up. Every Single mass shooting is like Christmas for them (and the NRA and the GOP). It’s fucking gross.

Why doesn’t one or several of those dopey ‘liberal’ billionaires running or threatening to run a quixotic presidential campaign spend their money papering the media landscape with that message?

Their rightwing counterparts certainly wouldn’t have any qualms about doing similar.

yes

what did we even talk about before we had random folks on twitter to stimulate and enrich our national conversations.

mods, can we put the "fucking" in the thread title in all caps, so it says another FUCKING spree shooting? I think the bigger, bolder, more enhanced vulgarity and aggression would be helpful for our totally not at all useless discussions about these FUCKING relentless incidents of insane violence and the FUCKING pervasive culture of defensiveness in this country.

for more than 12 years the thread title has been bothering me that it's not as FUCKING AGGRESSIVE and FUCKING EMOTIONAL as it could be. surely the discourse would be substantially improved were only the tone properly set.

We're entering a time where random deaths of strangers is a statistic. Simply to penetrate to the front page for a second day a mass killing has to have infants shot in the face, and struggling for life.

I won't in the least be surprised if in a decade, there will be a media shorthand for young white male gun nuts going on killing sprees; something like "Kevin Smith of Sherwood, AL went killhappy before being subdued by law enforcement". It'll just be a normal hazard of living in a "free" society.

And Amazon will profit.

another one. not getting a whole lot of MSM play, maybe because no one died

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-teens-shot-high-school-football-game-alabama/story?id=65309106

it's all about the body count, these days. double-digits is almost a minimum, unless it was a unique mass shooting situation, like the one that happened the other day with the traffic stop turned into a drive-by.

squint and it's a victory

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/business/walmart-ends-handgun-ammo-sales/index.html

Oof this is a rough watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ykNZl9mTQ

fucking hell

ban all guns jesus what will it take

That PSA and the one with the library romance and disaffected kid fomenting rebellion in the background are both very dramatic but they're also driving me crazy by being COMPLETELY WRONG about the problem.

The problem is guns.

what will it take? repeal of the Second Amendment, for a start

yes, exactly. "when you know the signs".... the sign is everyone is free to maintain a private arsenal the size of their choosing.

On the plus side: https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/colt-ar15/index.html

Colt, the manufacturer of the AR-15 rifle, has announced it's exiting the consumer rifle market as demand for high-powered, semi-automatic guns wanes.

The consumer market for rifles has "experienced significant excess manufacturing capacity" and there's too much supply of AR-15 guns on the market to justify making more, the company said in a statement. Colt will still manufacture other consumer guns, including pistols and revolvers, and it will continue to expand its network of dealers.

It's a move of the needle, however small.

frightening to realize that a country of however many millions of people, where access to guns is pretty easy and people are fucking nutcases, is actually a saturated market for high-powered semiautomatics

100% certain Colt is exiting the AR-15 market not out of social conscience or public pressure, but because they can't make a profit due to competition.

Americans already own at least 15 million AR-15s, so private sales are probably cannibalizing Colt's market for new weapons

of course they'll bring it back when the margins look better

If a Democrat wins in 2020 the panic buying will recommence. Unitary Republican government has been terrible for weapons company bottom lines.

Brad: There are literally dozens of firms marketing cheap AR-15 clones, and more making parts that can be mix/match assembled into complete weapons. Colt just isn't price competitive for the average AR-15 buyer.