The Cheese Board, what are you drinking?

Only certain grapes are allowed in Bordeaux for the labeling to say Bordeaux (white: semillon, sauvignon blanc red: usually some blend of cab sav, merlot, cab franc, but petit verdot, carmener, malbec are also allowed). When they use that assortment of grapes in California or Chile it's called a bordeaux blend or meritage.

it's just shorthand so you know what the grapes are and the style whenever those grapes are blended into the finished wine. Bordeaux is actually experimenting with allowing new grapes for the first time because of climate change.

eek. right, got it.

muscadelle is another white one, no?

yep!. It's been a running criticism of that movie Sideways that it kind of tanked merlot sales for such a long time with his comments that merlot sucks but then at the end he drinks the Cheval Blanc that is mostly merlot and cab franc (right bank bordeaux).

lol i have resisted that movie forever.

the only reason i know about muscadelle is because the first ever visit i made to a chateau was to a place that made sauternes, and the woman in charge took us through the whole process, told us about "noble rot", and the three different grapes she used. i used to think muscadelle was the same grape from whence came muscadet but NO that would be too easy.

wait, then what's muscatel?

yeah it's all very confusing. Muscadet is a wine from the Loire made with the grape Melon de Bourgogne which you would think would be found mostly in Bourgogne (Burgundy), but no. We call it the poor man's Chablis. I love it. And then there is muscadelle and moscatel/muscat and there are a bunch of varieties of that. And Sauternes is usually labeled Sauternes (or one of the other botrytises sweet aoc's nearby) and not Bordeaux unless it's a dry wine made in Sauternes then it can be labeled Bordeaux. It's a lot of rules.

this is a world i will never have the strength to communicate in

or one of the other botrytises sweet aoc's nearby

i only understand "one of the other ______ nearby"

Muscadet is awesome. One of the great shellfish wines, especially oysters, even good with spaghetti and clams. Also, they are relatively cheap in that you can get a top notch one for about $22 and a very good one for less.

I think it's harder for americans (and others of the 'new world') to feel comfortable with wine from old world (france, italy, spain etc) because it is a whole different language. Like, they don't put the name of the grape on the bottles because the ideal is that wine should be a reflection of the region/land/terroir first and foremost so you have to know the style of the wine based upon the region on the label. And each country has it's own system of designations. Like, in France it's the AOC/AOP so if a cheese says it's camembert or comté then it must be from a certain region and made under certain guidelines. If a wine says it's Chablis or Vouvray or Champagne it must be made within a certain geographical region with certain grapes, under certain guidelines.

ultimately though it's all just wine. My spouse really likes any grocery store chardonnay that's super buttery/oaky/alcoholic. It always makes me want to eat a pineapple pizza.

good pairing recommendation!

any grocery store chardonnay that's super buttery/oaky/alcoholic.

How do you deal with this given your interests?

he's a cheap date!
(plus I am actually not that snobby about wine, I will drink almost anything, especially in the interest of being able to make mental comparisons, benchmark things).

i just scrolled up and i am proud to say that i do know what "petrichor" means

one of the things about doing blind tastings is systematically assessing wines to determine the grape, region and quality/price level. xpost

I always used petrichor in a figurative, emotive way and didn't really know about the compounds underneath.

being knowledgeable doesn't need to mean being snobby at all!
idk anything about compounds, only the smell

Lol! As long as he doesn’t try to get you to order Yellowtail instead of a nice Chablis when dining out.

I guess I am being snobby, but I prefer choosy ;)

I have no formal wine training, but do fear I would not be able to differentiate wines blind. One of the only times I tasted blind I did identify an old school sauv blanc from Bordeaux as sauv blanc but probably because it was so weird.

He actually does know a lot about wine now through me, but I do order all the wine or beer for both of us because I know exactly what he likes and since I am not too choosy I will switch out our glasses if he prefers what I am drinking.

I should aspire to your level of flexibility. My wife is easy in that she doesn’t care too much. She will tell what she likes and generally our tastes are very similar. She probably has less tolerance for sweetness, where I will go crazy for a sweet wine with a ton of acidity

Interesting that sotolon was isolated from fenugreek. I love the smell and taste of fenugreek as well. One of the first things I’m going to do when I get back to Sapporo is head to Soup Curry Heaven Goraku; they really major on the fenugreek in their soup and it is delicious.

I just created a "Wines to Look for and Try" list on my phone thanks to this thread. Dunno when I'll get back to Kingston but I will definitely find that wine store.

Btw my local Bklyn shop has a couple of the Nestarec varieties, but 1: Not the one I had at Lis, and 2: They're over $30 a bottle. Which is too much for a normal evening imo although maybe if I was entertaining.

I will go crazy for a sweet wine with a ton of acidity

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Very curious about what some examples of this type might be?

Most good sweet wines have a ton of acidity because it's needed to balance out all the sugar. Were you still at my house during that Harry Potter thing when I opened a dessert wine? It was a Moulin Touchais, 96 or 97, from Coteaux Layon in the Loire (chenin blanc). It's botrytised (noble rot- grapes were able to achieve a certain moldiness on the vine and the water evaporates making the grapes have more concentrated sugar and gives gingery, candied notes). Not all sweet wines have this rot, it's just a certain style in regions and years where it can produce humidity but also dry off during the day so it doesn't turn into the bad rot.

popular famous ones would be sauternes (fr), tokaji (hungary), beerenauslese or trockenbeerenauslese (TBA) from alsace, germany or austria, vin santo (italy).

I don't remember a Harry Potter thing or a dessert wine tbh! C and I came over to your then-new condo once iirc but I don't remember anything about that night, total memory-wipe. Wth?

Hmm typically I don't like sweet wines at all, prefer rocky/minerality/citrus/tartness. What I was wondering is whether some of the tart wines that I like actually have sweetness underneath for balance, which I've been overlooking because I'm focused on the tartness.

I want to do a wine tasting class just because I know what I like but I don't know how to talk/share about it.

kinda blowing my mind that there's a "good" botrytis, it is also the bane of weed growers fyi

It was a weird thing. We had dry ice and F was projecting silly astronomy stuff on the ceiling!

I don't like sweet things typically but I love luscious dessert wines. Most wine sold is dry (no residual sugar) though. That description you listed above is usually found in old world style wines. New world and hotter climates have such ripe grapes (higher alcohol) and the fruit character is usually very pronounced so it seems sweet when it's really just the fruit being forward.

oh weed, like pot. I was very confused why people were growing weeds on purpose.

in orbit, next time i am back we should get together with l4uren and open a bunch of bottles. I usually try to bring back something weird to open and she has a lot of natural wines she is trying.

Oh I do remember the dry ice! Lol what a weird/fun reason to have a dinner party.

xp Yes totally!!!

I mean the description rocky, minerally, tart citrus, any salesperson or sommelier would have an idea of what you like so you can just tell them that. The easiest way of telling if something has residual sugar leftover is just to pinch your nose and dip your tongue into the wine and see if you taste sugar. I still do this when if I can't tell if something is off dry. Semi-sweet or sweet wines you would definitely know right away.

xxxxp

Got some Moulin Touchais ‘79 for my aunt & uncle’s wedding anniversary a few weeks ago. Was fun to open something older than me, and it had held up super well for a relatively un-spendy wine. Lower than usual % of botrytis that year apparently, combined with the 40 years of ageing meant that it was barely sweet at all, more kind of rhubarb flavour.

I also love sweet wine more than anyone who drinks with me, so I rarely open a bottle. Been working my way through a few bottles of really tasty, refreshing Jurancon (Cauhape - symphonie de novembre) which will probably see me through til Christmas.

ohhhh i am in love with Moulin Touchais. I wanted to visit when I was in the Loire but I was too anxious about speaking only in french about something I really liked. Were they married in 79?

you may have already done this but if you google Moulin Touchais verticle, they host verticle tastings of older wines and people write up good notes. I usually compare them when I find some bottles and am trying to figure out what I want. I see they just did one recently.
https://gregsherwoodmw.com/2019/05/05/tasting-the-magical-sweet-wines-of-moulin-touchais-through-the-ages/

xp yeah it was their 40th this year - scary stuff!

Thanks for the link! I’ll definitely be interested in digging out some more vintages for comparison. Interesting how his notes differed somewhat from my experience - I guess there must be a fair amount of bottle variation (also he might have a slightly more developed palate than me who knows)

kinda blowing my mind that there's a "good" botrytis, it is also the bane of weed growers fyi

― sleeve

This makes me think of huitlacoche, corn smut, which can be both a delicacy and a scourge to farmers. I love it. Sry for derail!

xpost his notes differ from other tasters too. It's amusing to read the difference. I think there are 4-5 easily found online..

i had no clue about botrytis in weed. It was interesting to read.

learning all kinds of things up on the cheese board :)

RE: acid/sweet:

If you care to dip your toes into the world of beer, Belgian lambic (esp. the fruited ones) offer a nice balance of acid and sweetness. Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet, but I would say you probably should be unafraid of brettanomyces (notes of horse blanket, straw) firstly.

(brettanomyces once being a bane to wine producers, now embraced by some in the natural wine community)

Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet

cosign 100%

yeah brett is a wine fault but some people love/want it. I love lambics but don't think I have really drunk very much off them in years and years.

If the stars ever align again, I will rectify that!

Very curious about what some examples of this type might be?

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 13:42 (three hours ago) link

Yerac dropped some knowledge (of course) re: dessert wines. I will just add that I was thinking of stuff like an off dry Riesling or Chenin Blanc, where you have some residual sugar and the perception of sweetness , but backed up by racy acidity.

i like a riesling with sweetness and acidity and some petrol on the nose

something from alsace

I want to come to a ILXOR weird wine drinking party. (Said, very much in the style of Ted Danson’s George Christopher character from bored to Death).

I love lambic but think I've only had framboise, which is way too sweet on its own, but mixed with something like Hoegaarden (~1:5) = maybe my fave refreshment for warm weather. Was always scared kriek might be cough medicine-y. But I feel like there are responsible people on this thread that wld not steer me wrongly

Guessing I loved that nat wine the other day partly due to the fact that I like the Bretty things

Xpost all around

is it framboise lambic season? hmm, maybe