The Cheese Board, what are you drinking?

Interesting that sotolon was isolated from fenugreek. I love the smell and taste of fenugreek as well. One of the first things I’m going to do when I get back to Sapporo is head to Soup Curry Heaven Goraku; they really major on the fenugreek in their soup and it is delicious.

I just created a "Wines to Look for and Try" list on my phone thanks to this thread. Dunno when I'll get back to Kingston but I will definitely find that wine store.

Btw my local Bklyn shop has a couple of the Nestarec varieties, but 1: Not the one I had at Lis, and 2: They're over $30 a bottle. Which is too much for a normal evening imo although maybe if I was entertaining.

I will go crazy for a sweet wine with a ton of acidity

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Very curious about what some examples of this type might be?

Most good sweet wines have a ton of acidity because it's needed to balance out all the sugar. Were you still at my house during that Harry Potter thing when I opened a dessert wine? It was a Moulin Touchais, 96 or 97, from Coteaux Layon in the Loire (chenin blanc). It's botrytised (noble rot- grapes were able to achieve a certain moldiness on the vine and the water evaporates making the grapes have more concentrated sugar and gives gingery, candied notes). Not all sweet wines have this rot, it's just a certain style in regions and years where it can produce humidity but also dry off during the day so it doesn't turn into the bad rot.

popular famous ones would be sauternes (fr), tokaji (hungary), beerenauslese or trockenbeerenauslese (TBA) from alsace, germany or austria, vin santo (italy).

I don't remember a Harry Potter thing or a dessert wine tbh! C and I came over to your then-new condo once iirc but I don't remember anything about that night, total memory-wipe. Wth?

Hmm typically I don't like sweet wines at all, prefer rocky/minerality/citrus/tartness. What I was wondering is whether some of the tart wines that I like actually have sweetness underneath for balance, which I've been overlooking because I'm focused on the tartness.

I want to do a wine tasting class just because I know what I like but I don't know how to talk/share about it.

kinda blowing my mind that there's a "good" botrytis, it is also the bane of weed growers fyi

It was a weird thing. We had dry ice and F was projecting silly astronomy stuff on the ceiling!

I don't like sweet things typically but I love luscious dessert wines. Most wine sold is dry (no residual sugar) though. That description you listed above is usually found in old world style wines. New world and hotter climates have such ripe grapes (higher alcohol) and the fruit character is usually very pronounced so it seems sweet when it's really just the fruit being forward.

oh weed, like pot. I was very confused why people were growing weeds on purpose.

in orbit, next time i am back we should get together with l4uren and open a bunch of bottles. I usually try to bring back something weird to open and she has a lot of natural wines she is trying.

Oh I do remember the dry ice! Lol what a weird/fun reason to have a dinner party.

xp Yes totally!!!

I mean the description rocky, minerally, tart citrus, any salesperson or sommelier would have an idea of what you like so you can just tell them that. The easiest way of telling if something has residual sugar leftover is just to pinch your nose and dip your tongue into the wine and see if you taste sugar. I still do this when if I can't tell if something is off dry. Semi-sweet or sweet wines you would definitely know right away.

xxxxp

Got some Moulin Touchais ‘79 for my aunt & uncle’s wedding anniversary a few weeks ago. Was fun to open something older than me, and it had held up super well for a relatively un-spendy wine. Lower than usual % of botrytis that year apparently, combined with the 40 years of ageing meant that it was barely sweet at all, more kind of rhubarb flavour.

I also love sweet wine more than anyone who drinks with me, so I rarely open a bottle. Been working my way through a few bottles of really tasty, refreshing Jurancon (Cauhape - symphonie de novembre) which will probably see me through til Christmas.

ohhhh i am in love with Moulin Touchais. I wanted to visit when I was in the Loire but I was too anxious about speaking only in french about something I really liked. Were they married in 79?

you may have already done this but if you google Moulin Touchais verticle, they host verticle tastings of older wines and people write up good notes. I usually compare them when I find some bottles and am trying to figure out what I want. I see they just did one recently.
https://gregsherwoodmw.com/2019/05/05/tasting-the-magical-sweet-wines-of-moulin-touchais-through-the-ages/

xp yeah it was their 40th this year - scary stuff!

Thanks for the link! I’ll definitely be interested in digging out some more vintages for comparison. Interesting how his notes differed somewhat from my experience - I guess there must be a fair amount of bottle variation (also he might have a slightly more developed palate than me who knows)

kinda blowing my mind that there's a "good" botrytis, it is also the bane of weed growers fyi

― sleeve

This makes me think of huitlacoche, corn smut, which can be both a delicacy and a scourge to farmers. I love it. Sry for derail!

xpost his notes differ from other tasters too. It's amusing to read the difference. I think there are 4-5 easily found online..

i had no clue about botrytis in weed. It was interesting to read.

learning all kinds of things up on the cheese board :)

RE: acid/sweet:

If you care to dip your toes into the world of beer, Belgian lambic (esp. the fruited ones) offer a nice balance of acid and sweetness. Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet, but I would say you probably should be unafraid of brettanomyces (notes of horse blanket, straw) firstly.

(brettanomyces once being a bane to wine producers, now embraced by some in the natural wine community)

Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet

cosign 100%

yeah brett is a wine fault but some people love/want it. I love lambics but don't think I have really drunk very much off them in years and years.

If the stars ever align again, I will rectify that!

Very curious about what some examples of this type might be?

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 13:42 (three hours ago) link

Yerac dropped some knowledge (of course) re: dessert wines. I will just add that I was thinking of stuff like an off dry Riesling or Chenin Blanc, where you have some residual sugar and the perception of sweetness , but backed up by racy acidity.

i like a riesling with sweetness and acidity and some petrol on the nose

something from alsace

I want to come to a ILXOR weird wine drinking party. (Said, very much in the style of Ted Danson’s George Christopher character from bored to Death).

I love lambic but think I've only had framboise, which is way too sweet on its own, but mixed with something like Hoegaarden (~1:5) = maybe my fave refreshment for warm weather. Was always scared kriek might be cough medicine-y. But I feel like there are responsible people on this thread that wld not steer me wrongly

Guessing I loved that nat wine the other day partly due to the fact that I like the Bretty things

Xpost all around

is it framboise lambic season? hmm, maybe

Many of the commercial lambic producers in/around Brussels back-sweeten their Kriek/Framboise/Faro to make it a little more palatable for the modern palate, but the traditional HORAL producers shun this practice. So if you're only sample Mort Subite or Lindemans, you may be in for a surprise to have, for example, a 3 Fonteinen fruited lambic.

Framboise/Frambozen lambic is a bit more acid that I prefer, esp. compared to a nice nuanced Kriek.

gizza gueuze

Ahhh, tres interessant, thx!

Xpost

I had a Cantillon Faro in Brussels that was amazing, no Faro I can buy in the UK has ever been up to scratch

Cantillon is probably the most difficult of the lambic producers to obtain here (USA), although that is changing. From 2014-2018 it became a real sport to drink and collect Cantillon seasonal releases.

Too bad we can't have a weird ilxor wine/beer tasting because everyone lives in every corner of the world.

xps:

...although much easier in Italy, parts of France & Japan.

I went to 2 Cantillon events in Tokyo recently Zwanze Day 2017 & a meet the brewers (Jean & Julie van Roy) last year and maybe 20-30 people showed up to each event. A similar event in a major metro in the USA would run $50-100 and sell out instantly via online ticketing.

Where did you find out about these Tokyo events, i’ll Be there soon?

I propose an ILXOR, weird drinking world tour. Happy to host Melbourne as it would be a good excuse to see if Mac Forbes will let me/us into his cellar again.

Not that I can get it down here but my favourite Kreik/Gueze producer is Drij Fonatainen. The Kriek is very tart and so refreshing on a hot day and the gueze is a delicious blend of beers of different ages, still sour but rich too.

will def look for that kriek (and the one Jersey Al mentioned). i was completely chuffed this past weekend to find one of my fave belgians in a store in LA, oerbier by de dolle brewery. i think it is a wee bit maltier than my fave Belgian which i think is seasonal and haven't seen since i left sf - Boskeun by the same brewers. strong real-deal Belgian ale.

I'm not quite sure how Ed arrive at his spelling of 3 Fonteinen but yes we are talking about the very same lambic brouwerij in Beersel, Belgium:

https://3fonteinen.be/en/

I found out about the events in Tokyo by being there at the right time I guess? Some locals mentioned the events to me and I was fortunate enough to be in town.

Every year or alternating year, de dolle ages their oerbier in Bourdeaux casks and they release a very limited amount. It is named "oerbier special reserva", it's a really nice oxidized, malty rustic flavor.

The very same, and what a great address for a brewery. I now from their menu that they have solders cask geuze - that is just ringing all my bells.

woah! and "omigod"
xpost

The first 4 beers listed on their menu are 4 types of geuze blended from lambic components aged in Sherry casks and/or via solera method. This beer is the sole reason I know what Yerac is talking about in her vin jaune notes lol.

I am looking up geuzes because I have never had one before. There is a lot of sediment in these? ( I probably should clarify too that vin jaune doesn't do solera/fractional blending, it just has that yeast film and oxidative aging.)

Most gueze are pretty yeasty.

right, i meant your tasting notes comparison of vin jaune to jerez/sherry solera method of course.

the way that the producers filter out the sediment is via decanting (rarely) or more commonly, by pouring out of a serving basket at a slight tilt so that the sediment settles and never enters the serving vessel.

i was out on sunday w/a guy who wanted to drop some cash on geuze...we split a boon black lambic which was as rough and rustic as i've ever tasted. no complaints tho.

boon black label (& girardin black label) used to fly under the radar, i feel like those days are over.

judging by what my buddy paid that is the case

i've been following this thread loosely....my one unoriginal observation is that a lot of natural wines share the yeast profile of the weird farmhouse ales i've been drinking for years. i'm not really sure what to make of it, mostly it's just funny when i read the hype about one or the other.

I need to get over my mental block of spending more on beer by the bottle.