Deep Space Nine: a thread for (re)watching this awesome series

i like vic fontaine, but he does say 'pallie' too much

i have begun season seven

maybe the nog ptsd episode managed to wring some pathos out of the otherwise risible vic fontaine thing.

pic.twitter.com/xe7vaiwIg0

— Charles Windstar (@Cwindstar) September 6, 2019

damn, i finished ds9 last night. i definitely felt bereft afterwards.

i know we have people watching rn so i won't spoilerize, but there are many elements of the finale that i was not fully on board with.

was pretty amazed that the penultimate episode was honestly not very good and focused quite a bit on the ferenghis. never change ds9

man I'm so itching to discuss all the aspects of the finale and the whole of the season that i wasn't on board with.

this show is a hundred years old, there can be no spoilers, metaphysically speaking

It is with extreme regret and sadness to announce that my love and best friend, Aron Eisenberg, passed away earlier today.
He was an intelligent, humble, funny, emphatic soul. He sought to live his life with... https://t.co/VbI9X5g1ku

— Malíssa Longo (@Malissa_Longo) September 22, 2019

RIP :(

aww. RIP :(

Bummer.

finally finished it

still don't like nog

your heart felt something at the ptsd episode, though. right?

never felt like he was a character dude I could relate to personally due to baggage and different outlooks but the realization, couched in the disconnect that *he* was now the injured one and really figured out what empathy is, meant something

then again, c’mon, you have to lose a leg to realize you’re mortal. ferengi are all libertarian teens

i think i mostly didn’t like him because his actor (rip) seemed to always be yelling? as a character he had a good arc, but weird because even at the end he still looked exactly like the kid he used to be

He still looks exactly the same 75 years later (The Visitor).

According to Ira Behr, Marc Alaimo never wavered from his belief that at heart, Dukat was an okay guy. He'd developed his theory during the shooting of the third season episode "Defiant", a landmark show in terms of rendering Dukat a more ambiguous character from a moral standpoint, and despite all that Dukat had done, Alaimo still felt there was good in him. As Behr says, "In Marc's mind, I believe he felt his relationship with Winn was legitimate in some way, and that, in some wacky fashion, it was Dukat's bid for legitimacy. I mean Marc was actually upset when we had him hit Solbor [in "The Changing Face of Evil"]. Until the very end, he wanted Dukat to be the hero of Deep Space Nine.

lol what a weirdo

method acting

anyway, s07 was good. i think the jadzia-to-ezri thing was handled about as well as it possibly could have been. (the ezri's family episode was weak, but that wasn't the character's fault.) her interactions with worf were great. the method of her getting with bashir was annoying -- oh, she's talking about him in her sleep, and then the two of them spend three episodes staring at/avoiding each other like adolescents -- but i don't mind them getting together.

i liked vic fontaine, but it was maybe a little too much. if those episodes had been spread out over multiple seasons than one-plus seasons it might have been better. i was a little disappointed that it was never explained why he was 'more than just a hologram' -- briefly wondered whether he might be a Prophet who was on probation or something.

garak and weyoun were awesome. kai winn was perfect. damar was solid. would join the house of martok. still don't think much of dukat or his actor -- no depth when it was required nor presence when it wasn't.

the section 31 eps were good (and the guy who played sloan was great) except for the final one where . . . miles and julian traipsed through his dying mind? that was goofy af and easily the weakest part of the entire Final Chapter.

the miles-and-julian relationship really became a parody by the end.

weird to see quark reduced to the role of greek chorus in s07, particularly as people went to vic's instead.

sorry for complaining about kira being shrill early on; she ultimately ruled.

i just never really cared about odo. and tbh it's pretty weird that the federation would keep on a security officer who served under the cardassians -- even before he was revealed as one of the Dire Enemies. he and kira getting together was weird but fine, and much less annoying than the seasons spent with odo yearning.

always here for wallace shawn and rom; the rest of the ferengi episodes were . . . fine. whatever. the only episode i skipped in the whole series was the one where quark evidently dresses up as a woman.

the segue from Female Changeling Ordering the Genocide of All Cardassians and Pyrrhic Final Battle > Linking with Odo > Calmly Surrendering and Submitting to Judgment was . . . awfully handy.

the sisko's final fate was, i think, questionable at best. i'm told that originally he just became a prophet and that was it, but that upon reflection avery brooks thought 'having the black guy abandon his family' was a bad look and insisted on sisko promising to return. imo he should have been offered prophetic immortality and turned it down.

v. glad i watched it, even if it took like three years! definitely cared more about the characters than in other treks, although it took longer to do so than might have been ideal. i think it had higher highs than TNG; it might also have had more duds, but that's probably because i skipped the first two seasons of TNG. ultimately they're tough to compare.

and yes nog's progression from gung-ho kid who signs on with the crazy elite cadets > kid who is less gung-ho > maimed and scared veteran is really good and important.

i just find nog's presence annoying. it'd have been better (and more interesting) with jake

if they ever followed up on the Ferengi, I’d most want to know how Rom did as Grand Nagus

Nothing would ever be better and more interesting with Jake

My issues with the final season were: enough with the mirror universe and holodeck and stupid Ferengi episodes already! When they were still coming in the second half of the season it *really* felt like they had more important things to be getting on with. Except... the whole Dominion/Cardassian alliance and war ended up being just as tiresome - there was absolutely no sense of the grand scale of it, when most of the time it was just Weyoun and Damar alone in a room looking at screens. The expressionless Breen added absolutely nothing. And as for Sisko, what a fucking disaster. Seven seasons of building up expectations and then - "I know what I have to do! Fly to Bajor in a shuttle and hurl myself off a cliff!"

The last section 31 episode was indeed a dire, a miserable failure of an attempt at a classic mindfuck episode. Hated Vic. The Klingon episodes were good, probably the best part of the whole thing.

Sorry to be so negative. I'd never have agreed that it had higher highs than TNG, but I feel like S7 retroactively poisoned my enjoyment of the whole thing!

Ok, Terrence, don’t be nervous, it’s just a walk by. You’re just an extra. You’ve been walking your whole life. This shouldn’t be hard. Just don’t walk like a complete weirdo, distract them, and ruin the scene. Ok. Here we go pic.twitter.com/EMktaqaWb6

— William Mullally 🍯☕️ (@whmullally) October 2, 2019

My issues with the final season were: enough with the mirror universe and holodeck and stupid Ferengi episodes already! When they were still coming in the second half of the season it *really* felt like they had more important things to be getting on with. Except... the whole Dominion/Cardassian alliance and war ended up being just as tiresome - there was absolutely no sense of the grand scale of it, when most of the time it was just Weyoun and Damar alone in a room looking at screens. The expressionless Breen added absolutely nothing. And as for Sisko, what a fucking disaster. Seven seasons of building up expectations and then - "I know what I have to do! Fly to Bajor in a shuttle and hurl myself off a cliff!"

The last section 31 episode was indeed a dire, a miserable failure of an attempt at a classic mindfuck episode. Hated Vic. The Klingon episodes were good, probably the best part of the whole thing.

Sorry to be so negative. I'd never have agreed that it had higher highs than TNG, but I feel like S7 retroactively poisoned my enjoyment of the whole thing!

― The Pingularity (ledge), Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:04 AM (one week ago)

i basically share most of your criticisms. i like vic tho.

it also felt a little too melancholy to end with that shot of kira and jake looking at the wormhole, thinking about their loved ones that they may never see again.

at work emailing someone with the first name gul and a second name that sounds like a cardassian surname

https://s.put.re/36doTBVb.jpeg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGaHMdkWwAAAqpt?format=jpg&name=small

My roommate sent me a “meme” and now I have to sit down pic.twitter.com/Wl8vRRhpwr

— Alex Arrelia (@AlexArrelia) January 12, 2020

Ya, iirc Trek pretty regularly paints this era as basically the Dark Ages.

I watched that two-parter not too long ago and it was probably a heavy-handed warning of what could be in the mid-'90s but watching it today I was fairly impressed by their prognostication skills.

*marks calendar for four years from now*

The Bell Riots were a pivotal series of events on Earth that took place in September of 2024. Started in San Francisco's Sanctuary District A, they were named after protest leader Gabriel Bell. One of the most violent civil disturbances in all of American history, the riots and subsequent crackdown resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Sanctuary District residents

By the 2020s, the American government – reacting to serious problems of homelessness and unemployment – created special Sanctuary Districts (essentially walled-off sections of the city grid) in most major cities. Unfortunately – while established with the benevolent intent of providing free housing and food, as well as prospects for future employment – the Sanctuaries quickly degenerated into inhumane internment camps for the poor.

this appalling socialism would never fly in the real america of the 2020s

xp. strangely TNG mention that in 2024 irish unification happens.

and that ds9 ep also prognosticates that the neo-trotskyists will soon be in power in france

which, if la france insoumise were more popular, would be kind of accurate maybe?

I could see the sanctuary district thing happening if it gave a huge kickback to the property owners that topped the amount they'd make from redevelopment

Star Trek had a nuclear apocalypse in the late '90s IIRC

same

i know they shared a lot of writers, but did ds9 pick up a lot of tng staff once it was off the air? would that explain the general uptick in quality with season 4?

He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them pic.twitter.com/PZySdov6Po

— Carta Monir (@CartaMonir) March 14, 2020

lol, thought that scenario felt familiar. Although I don't remember ever hoping that Quark's would get looted in the wake of a failed scheme.

Anyone complaining that ST: Picard is too slow has not watched this show recently.

HOW DARE U

this one's mostly episodic though other than like 4 or 5 episodes per season that advance the Plot? its not 'slow' if its executing a complete story every episode imo

i haven't seen picard so maybe that's the same idk

IDK, because of my love for Trek and my respect for the participants of this thread, and their enthusiasm, I have been trying for a while to get into DS9. I've watched about 2 1/2 seasons over the last couple of years, but have forgotten what took place in most of the episodes so I've been rewatching select eps from S2 & S3 to keep at it. Anyway, I still find most of the characters to be less than compelling. I don't really know what Dax is or does still, Bashir I'm warming to, Quark I like, but everyone with the exception of O'Brien TALKS WAY TOO MUCH. The only person to really own it, and who I'm finally getting into as I'm getting close to the end of S3, is Avery Brooks and his demented, go for broke line readings no matter what the occasion.

By and large, the pace is excruciating, even on the self contained eps. Story arc-wise, I did like the one where the Dominion clowned the Cardassians & Romulans in one fell swoop. That was well written and paced, but it took an entire episode of setup to get there.

Anyway, I have plenty of time to keep at it and see where it goes.

I don't really know what Dax is or does still

There's behind the scenes stuff that kind of explains Dax's fuzziness, namely that the original scope for the character was to be a mentor figure dripping with gravitas, but Terry Farrell, being relatively new to acting, said she felt she couldn't pull it off, which sent Dax into a limbo until they settled on Action Barbie (her term) and party girl.

My beef with STP isn't its narrative slowness so much as its patchy and flimsy world-building, which is an area in which DS9 is unrivaled among the other Trek properties.

Other things that I love are Sisko and Jake's unbridled affection for each other, Garak, Kira yelling at people.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/05/deep-space-nine-the-trek-spinoff-that-saved-the-day-by-staying-put/

The time-traveling San Francisco episodes are overly too prescient and I hope they're not quite our world. They're much closer than I think the writers ever intended!

If Jeff Bezos wants to justify some of his zillions, he should fund the HD-ing of DS9.

just read (parts of) the 'star trek - the second 25 years' and lol

it's essentially just endless bitching by writers, most of whom were fired, complaining that they 'couldn't tell stories' because of roddenberry or berman or braga or the network. i mean it doesn't even *mention* that two ds9 actors had a baby during the show's run.

the exception is behr, who went ham at the end of ds9 (and will not shut up about it)

berman comes across as a dick, but at least a self-aware and superficially diplomatic one. except for 'it's so difficult to find beautiful young women who can actually act.' maurice hurley didn't even bother with that.