No one is really stepping up to claim that NL Cy right now, Scherzer is getting eased back into things slowly and Ryu has been bad of late. DeGrom could take it again but idk.
― omar little, Sunday, 1 September 2019 15:55 (four years ago) link
I’m rooting for Alvarez to win it with less than 81 games played.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 1 September 2019 20:19 (four years ago) link
JV and Cole had been very close statistically speaking for awhile but this coupled w/Cole’s last start puts him way out in front for the Cy.― omar little, Sunday, September 1, 2019 3:44 PM (yesterday)
It'd be hard to make a case for Cole today, unless you place an inordinate amount of importance on FIP--Cole still leads by half of run because of Verlander's HR. But they're still close enough that one great start by Cole coupled with one really poor one by Verlander would probably be enough to reverse that.
VHS: Alvarez would be a terrible choice for NL Cy Young.
― clemenza, Monday, 2 September 2019 13:29 (four years ago) link
looking fwd to the oldschool freakouts if Mike Minor get any first-place votes
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 September 2019 13:57 (four years ago) link
This came up on another thread. According to Baseball Reference, hitters get a 5% advantage in Texas, pitchers a 2% advantage in Houston. And on Fangraphs, the Astros rank 16th defensively, the Rangers 23rd. Having said that...
V: 2.56 ERA, 193 IP, 257 K, 177 ERA+, 3.42 FIP, 0.772 WHIP, 7.34 K/BB, 6.7 WARC: 2.85 ERA, 170 IP, 252 K, 159 ERA+, 2.93 FIP, 0.957 WHIP, 6.15 K/BB, 4.7 WARM: 3.25 ERA, 174 IP, 175 K, 158 ERA+, 3.95 FIP, 1.205 WHIP, 3.07 K/BB, 7.0 WAR
WAR on Fangraphs: Cole 5.3, Verlander 5.2, Minor 3.9.
Even with adjustments, I find the idea that Minor is the best of those three bizarre.
― clemenza, Monday, 2 September 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
Sorry Clem, I was discussing the (lifeless) AL ROY.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 2 September 2019 17:22 (four years ago) link
Minor shutting out NYY thru 5
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 September 2019 21:53 (four years ago) link
Cole has struck out 14 in six innings...which brings to him to 105 pitches, though; not sure what his limit is. He's probably out, one inning more at most.
― clemenza, Monday, 2 September 2019 22:23 (four years ago) link
Verlander pitches well yesterday and wins, Cole--through 7 innings--working on a one-hitter with 13 strikeouts today.
― clemenza, Sunday, 8 September 2019 20:29 (four years ago) link
Verlander and Cole back-to-back is looking like some real Johnson-Schilling shit
― omar little, Monday, 9 September 2019 00:58 (four years ago) link
Has anyone ever reached 300 Ks before they reached 200 IP? Cole has 281 strikeouts in 184.1 IP...
― omar little, Monday, 9 September 2019 01:13 (four years ago) link
If I still had my baseball reference subscription I’d search for single seasons where a SP had a 13.5 K per 9 rate or higher. Alas...
― I am also Harl (Karl Malone), Monday, 9 September 2019 01:16 (four years ago) link
you don't need a subscription (Cole's alone)
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_season.shtml
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 9 September 2019 01:26 (four years ago) link
actually Randy Johnson got to 300+ before he hit 200 IP in 2001 (the season he struck out 372 in 249.2 IP)
― omar little, Monday, 9 September 2019 01:27 (four years ago) link
Pedro came close in '99 (313 K in 213.1 IP for the year), but looking at his game logs, I think he just missed. Ryan was never even close to a 100+ K/IP margin, so pretty sure no for him.
― clemenza, Monday, 9 September 2019 15:56 (four years ago) link
100 K/IP, now that would be a record
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 11 September 2019 09:53 (four years ago) link
I know you're kidding...I should have rendered that as +100 IP-K.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 12:25 (four years ago) link
Even better: +100 K-IP.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 12:26 (four years ago) link
btw deGrom is clearly the Mets' MVP, and trails only Bellinger, Yelich and Marte among all NL players (due in part to his batting value).
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 September 2019 11:44 (four years ago) link
Scherzer and Ryu are both taking themselves out of the running lately. I'm thinking DeGrom might repeat.
― omar little, Saturday, 14 September 2019 03:25 (four years ago) link
I'll have to compare tomorrow, but in the AL, I thought Verlander and Cole were close enough that one start by each could reorder them. And that's exactly what has happened--so-so start by Verlander yesterday, another dominant performance by Cole today. I think Cole might have overtaken him for the moment.
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 September 2019 03:32 (four years ago) link
Cole has been so good lately, it does seem like he's finishing very strong and Verlander may just be finishing "well".
― omar little, Saturday, 14 September 2019 03:59 (four years ago) link
degrom's having another great season but i think this is scherzer's to lose
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Saturday, 14 September 2019 04:04 (four years ago) link
I think you're going to see two of the closest Cy votes ever (certainly in a single season).
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 September 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link
Scrolled through, and I only found one year where both winners were under an 80% share of the vote: 1973. Palmer beat Ryan 88-62 (14 first-place votes to 9...Blyleven ahead in WAR by 2-3 wins; think I had an epic argument about that one once), Seaver beat Marshall 71-54 (10 first-place votes to 9...Seaver was ahead in WAR 10.6 to 3.0!). Anyway, both leagues should be even closer this year. With Verlander-Cole, they're so close you either flip a coin or delve into Game Scores and strength-of-opposition.
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 September 2019 17:29 (four years ago) link
When Alvarez pulls the ball in the air, he bats .868 with a 2.421 slugging percentage.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/youre-probably-underrating-yordan-alvarez
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 September 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
I don't know who votes in these mlb.com polls, but they've got Verlander still way ahead of Cole.
https://www.mlb.com/news/cy-young-poll-close-between-degrom-scherzer
That doesn't seem right; they ought to be very close.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 22:10 (four years ago) link
Verlander has that Pedro-like WHIP, plus the WAR lead. And the wins lead, if you wanna kick it old-school.
― omar little, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 23:02 (four years ago) link
i think one more "decent" JV start coupled with another otherworldly Cole start, plus him hitting 300 ks, might nudge him out in front.
― omar little, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 23:03 (four years ago) link
Great six innings from Verlander last night. We'll see how Cole responds--back and forth. They're definitely up with (though not equal to, I don't think) Johnson/Schilling right now.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 12:41 (four years ago) link
This site looks at strength of opposition--supposedly Verlander has had a clearly tougher draw.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2019/9/17/20870026/justin-verlander-vs-gerrit-cole-for-cy-young-2019
― clemenza, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
Cole has two starts left at this point, I guess? Verlander may also have two, which gives him a clean shot at the coveted and gritty 20 win mark.
― omar little, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 15:59 (four years ago) link
it’s surprising to me that strength of competition isn’t incorporated into basic WAR
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 September 2019 17:30 (four years ago) link
c'mon Mike Minor!
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 September 2019 20:43 (four years ago) link
Jacob deGrom's National League Cy Young Award defense gained some additional momentum today, when Max Scherzer allowed five runs in 6.2 IP.deGrom ranks:-First in pitcher bWAR-First in strikeouts-First in WHIP-Second in pitcher fWAR-Third in ERA-Fifth in innings— Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo) September 18, 2019
I don't give a fuckitty fuck who wins the awaaahds
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, September 15, 2019 8:17 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― na (NA), Wednesday, 18 September 2019 21:17 (four years ago) link
Genuinely curious as to why anyone would be rooting for Minor, a journeyman, to win over one certain HOF'er and one potential HOF'er--to me, no different than voting some half-season fluke into the All-Star Game. He's got a quirky, hard to explain lead in Baseball Reference's WAR calculation (down to 0.1 over Verlander), not really close in Fangraph's.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 September 2019 00:40 (four years ago) link
well, i wouldn't *vote* for him because i find his b-ref WAR a little crazy
but why not *root* for a guy who missed two entire seasons with shoulder surgery, went to the bullpen, came back as a starter and is having a career year at age 31? verlander's going to cooperstown whether he wins it or not
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 September 2019 00:55 (four years ago) link
If he were deserving, sure--I just can't see that he is next to the two Houston guys.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 September 2019 00:57 (four years ago) link
"they do nothing but give out awaaaahds"
yeah NA, I still don't, you POS
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 September 2019 01:06 (four years ago) link
they've got Verlander still way ahead of Cole.That doesn't seem right; they ought to be very close.
Verlander is more established and famous. The End.
It would be cute if JV lost out on a writers' award in the wake of having a writer barred from the clubhouse.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 September 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link
Cole just hit 300 Ks in 198.1 IP.
― omar little, Thursday, 19 September 2019 01:43 (four years ago) link
Six innings, two hits, 8 K, no walks or runs...His last ~15 starts must be on par with Arrieta's run a few years ago.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 September 2019 01:45 (four years ago) link
c'mon man
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 September 2019 01:59 (four years ago) link
he's been up my ass for about 15 years, c'mon him
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:02 (four years ago) link
Xpost all the way back to Clemenza, but “half-season flukes” are the best part of the all star game thankyouverymuch
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:22 (four years ago) link
I’m sorry. I just irealized I interrupted a fight. Let’s fight about scrubs in the ASG instead. I’m calling you out, Clem!
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
if you want to get fired up about unperson disrespecting leftists, then go crazy. you'll get banned, but i'm sure it will have been worth it
a) this board is about baseballb) you posted about your team's ace on a thread specifically about awards, which three days ago you posted that you didn't care aboutc) do you really want to post on a board by yourself, with no one to disagree with, because you've taken it too seriously?
i mean i know you, and that you're a sweetheart. stop being a dick about a game -- especially one that we all like very nearly as much as you
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:27 (four years ago) link
^^^ otm
― WmC, Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:29 (four years ago) link
“half-season flukes” are the best part of the all star game thankyouverymuch
I do understand the appeal--I think I'm generally viewed as the naive "narrative" guy around here--but I've long thought that the All-Star Game should be for the best players within, I don't know, a two-year window at least (preferably a little longer than that). If it comes down to a 37-year-old Willie Mays having a good-not-great season or Bernie Carbo tearing up the league--how's that for a timely example?--I want Mays in there.
(Hypocrisy interlude: I haven't actually watched more than a few minutes of an All-Star Game in at least a decade.)
I generally feel the same way about awards, unless the guy with the great story also has a legitimate statistical argument--i.e., I enjoyed seeing journeyman knuckleballer R.A. Dickey win. But I don't want Minor to win because I see no credible argument that he's the best pitcher in the league.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 September 2019 02:35 (four years ago) link
carlos carrasco = roberto clemente award
― mookieproof, Friday, 25 October 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link
racist josh header, abuser aroldis chapman named relievers of the year
― mookieproof, Saturday, 26 October 2019 20:56 (four years ago) link
Is he still a racist ?
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 27 October 2019 02:18 (four years ago) link
is he still an abuser ?
― mookieproof, Sunday, 27 October 2019 05:00 (four years ago) link
It was funny to see these two get honoured during the WS, seeing as both Washington and Houston reached the WS because of their respective screw-ups.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 27 October 2019 07:38 (four years ago) link
Xp I don’t know, I live with the certainly naive hope that people can grow out of racist ideology. Abuse I don’t see it the same way.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 28 October 2019 02:03 (four years ago) link
fielding bible awards: http://fieldingbible.com/complete-votetally.asp
― mookieproof, Thursday, 31 October 2019 20:15 (four years ago) link
What’s with Joe voting Cain the 7th best CF? Come on, Joe
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Thursday, 31 October 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
James: "74% of you think that Trout SHOULD win the MVP, 53% think that he will. FWIW, I'd probably vote for Semien. I think that the argument that Trout should win because he is the best player in baseball is a legitimate argument, but that there are other approaches which are also valid."
Bregman, Trout, and Semien are only separated by 0.3 in bWAR, but that's still an odd choice that could use some explanation.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:26 (four years ago) link
depends on one's assessment of their defensive values, it would seem
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:50 (four years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIyG74rVAAE2Usa?format=png&name=small
― mookieproof, Thursday, 7 November 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link
the astros were an average defensive team, weird
― k3vin k., Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link
Cy Young winners through the prism of analytics:
http://www.billjamesonline.com/back_to_the_future_part_4/
When I was new here, I had an epic argument with SF Alex over the '73 AL Cy Young (short version: I said there was at least a case for Palmer, Alex said open-and-shut for Blyleven). Daniel Marks says neither.
― clemenza, Friday, 8 November 2019 00:58 (four years ago) link
Actually, through the prism of Tom Tango's CY formula.
― clemenza, Friday, 8 November 2019 00:59 (four years ago) link
ALONSO
robbed of unanimity
https://www.amazinavenue.com/2019/11/11/20959532/mets-news-pete-alonso-wins-rookie-of-the-year-award-new-york-mlb
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 12:13 (four years ago) link
Both MOY votes were really close, for the first time in many years (I think)? Four or five managers in each league had legit cases for winning too.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 06:36 (four years ago) link
DeGrom wins the NL Cy Young, 29 out of 30 first place votes.
― omar little, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 23:39 (four years ago) link
Ryu gets the other
Verlander wins in the AL, 17 first place to Cole's 13.
― omar little, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
Cole wuz robbed!
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:22 (four years ago) link
Cole and Verlander had all the first place and all the second place votes. I'm assuming it's the first time that's happened.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 14 November 2019 06:43 (four years ago) link
Don't know if they got it right, but I thought Verlander-Cole was every bit as close as it should have been. (And the NL vote was every bit as not-close as it should have been.)
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 November 2019 17:50 (four years ago) link
i don't know of a counter-example off-hand, but that seems like it has to have happened before. pretty much anytime 2 pitchers stand head and shoulders above the rest of the league, right?
― Peaceful Warrior I Poser (Karl Malone), Thursday, 14 November 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
i feel like it would have happened w/Johnson and Schilling, maybe, but i only found the 2002 results thus far and Johnson was unanimous #1 and Schilling won almost all the second place votes but several guys threw votes to Smoltz and Gagne (lol), they were so dominant mowing down a couple of batters twice a week or so that year.
― omar little, Thursday, 14 November 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
Cole and Verlander had all the first place and all the second place votes
see also trout and bregman
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 November 2019 02:42 (four years ago) link
I figured NTBT was talking about teammates
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 November 2019 02:46 (four years ago) link
oic
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 November 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link
Good laugh at the 6 writers who gave LeMahieu the third place over Semien.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 15 November 2019 05:23 (four years ago) link
Actually I wasn't talking about teammates. But considering it happened again the very next day, maybe it isn't so rare?
Usually there's one near consensus pick or a few really good candidates and a highly split vote, no? I thought that two consensus candidates would be extremely rare.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 15 November 2019 12:09 (four years ago) link
maybe with the "numbers revolution" blah blah blah voters are becoming "more informed" (or something) thus there being less variance in their choices
― brimstead, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link