I dare you to anticipate Joaquin Phoenix in Todd Phillips's JOKER (now with something that may or may not be a SPOILER)

Surely many pearls were clutched upon the release of A Clockwork Orange?

Gone With the Wind also purports to be somewhat historical, so the harm it did seems to have been in distorting history.

Joe (1970)
R | 1h 47min | Drama, Thriller | 15 July 1970 (USA)

Two men, Bill, a wealthy conservative, and Joe, a far-right factory worker, form a dangerous bond after Bill confesses to murdering his daughter's drug dealer boyfriend to Joe.

Jesus, this is literally right wing ideology in one sentence.

I haven't seen it in forever and can't remember if it's intended satirically but my instinct is no.

I don't think so. It came up a lot in Nixonland.

it sort of sounds satirical from this, but maybe just done so hamfistedly that it doesn't read satirically? I mean the fact that he accidentally kills his own daughter at the end sounds like a trite sort of moral

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_(1970_film)

Surely many pearls were clutched upon the release of A Clockwork Orange?

Wot a ninny

until recently the movies i most frequently heard condemned as irresponsible were jfk and do the right thing

Caligula

JFK *is* pretty irresponsible but idk if it really had any impact on audience actions or politics. It is also hilariously awesome, obviously.

hard disagree on DTRT tho

p sure Stone's Ukraine/Putin movie is def going to qualify

Caligula led to a spate of Emperor on Emperor violence iirc

I'm just going to take a wild guess re: the demographics of those who've deemed Do the Right Thing to be irresponsible...

common thread with Birth of a Nation, Gone With the Wind, and JFK is that they are all revisionist histories that play hard and loose with facts in service to a broader ideological agenda.

do the right thing is obviously great and lee made the same correct observation re: demographics in public at the time, but it is an example of when media conversation around a movie was cast in these terms.

hard disagree on DTRT tho

Do the Right Thing was totally (and racistly) branded irresponsible.

right, I meant I disagreed with that branding

Gotcha.

the argument at the time was that there was going to be riots because of Do The Right Thing which is just so laughable on the face of it. The thinking there was that this *film* would convince black people to get irrationally angry about racism? As opposed to, like, all the actual racism?

think of all the innocent pizza parlors throughout the nation

Poor Danny Aiello

I think the question is why would we think Joker is going to inspire a bunch of basement dwelling incels from 4chan to get violent, when they're already on 4chan.

or 8chan or whatever the fuck jesus I'm a 40-year-old dad I only pretend I know what this stuff is

Warner Bros just lookin to capitalize on that sweet incel 8chan market

I think the question is why would we think Joker is going to inspire a bunch of basement dwelling incels from 4chan to get violent, when they're already on 4chan.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, September 4, 2019 12:50 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they're already violent, yeah

point stands that it's pouring gasoline on a fire

^^^^

Another key difference between the era of Taxi Driver, Death Wish, or even Natural Born Killers, is the socially-driven motivation of the perpetrators of these present day acts. It seems like the feedback loop from other forum members and media attention/notoriety compel these people to one-up each other. These people probably do have those old movies on high rotation, though.

I would rather see Joaquin in a live action remake of Lilo and Stitch.

In what role

both

Ms Hasagawa

stich

It probably is worth noting that spree killers and sociopathic vigilantes weren't a pervasive social ill when Natural Born Killers, Taxi Driver, Death Wish, etc. were released. This might be more comparable to the JD flicks of the '50s and '60s.

Ebert called Fight Club “the most frankly and cheerfully fascist big-star movie since Death Wish.”

a lot more people will leave this movie and get in fights than will leave it discussing Tyler Durden's moral philosophy

unfortunately i don't think it worked out this way

"Warner Bros just lookin to capitalize on that sweet incel 8chan market"

it worked with deadpool

a lot more people will leave this movie and get in fights than will leave it discussing Tyler Durden's moral philosophy

unfortunately i don't think it worked out this way

Sad and true.

It probably is worth noting that spree killers and sociopathic vigilantes weren't a pervasive social ill when Natural Born Killers, Taxi Driver, Death Wish, etc. were released. This might be more comparable to the JD flicks of the '50s and '60s.

Taxi Driver & Death Wish came from the height of the NY decline/Bernard Goetz/etc. landscape and American society even during Natural Born Killers was on the whole more violent and dangerous than it is today. They're as comparable to The Asphalt Jungle as Joker is.

Warner Bros just lookin to capitalize on that sweet incel 8chan market

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 19:52 (yesterday) link

Honestly they’re using the same tactic Disney used for Captain Marvel, just reversing the target of the outrage.

Captain Marvel: “All these alt-right incels are furious at this movie, so you must see it now!”

Joker: “All these uptight SJWs are mad about this movie, so you must see it now!”

It’s just a given part of the publicity cycle for these things now.

ding ding ding

landscape and American society even during Natural Born Killers was on the whole more violent and dangerous than it is today

Citation needed?

I think it's true that violent crime stats have dropped since then. You're just much less likely to know your murderer today, and your murderer is much less likely to have a coherent motive for killing you specifically.

‘Hi, welcome to the future. San Dimas, California, 2019. And I'm telling you it's great here. The air is clean, the water's clean, even the dirt, it's clean. Mass shootings are way up, violent crime stats are way down. And we have more excellent water slides than any other planet we communicate with.’

http://www.followingthenerd.com/site/wp-content/uploads/bill-and-ted-rufus.jpg

fwiw Goetz shooting was 1984, a decade after "Death Wish." "Taxi Driver," on the other hand, did come at the peak "NYC, drop dead" era.

What Natural Born Killers did sort of reflect was the hyper-tabloidization of the media landscape, and social media/internet has only exacerbated that. I don't know if people are necessarily more violent now or prone to violence, but there's never been a more readily available audience for that kind of misbehavior, even if chat rooms and forums and whatnot tend to over magnify their numbers.

The thing with Bernie Goetz, also, is that we know his name because, while I'm sure there were others who did likewise, he was pretty much an outlier rather than part of a larger vigilantism epidemic.

this doesn't go back to the 80s but
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/1999-2016_Gun-related_deaths_USA.png/800px-1999-2016_Gun-related_deaths_USA.png

Death Wish is an interesting one cause the guy who wrote the novel hated the movie -

Garfield was also unhappy with the final product, calling the film "incendiary", and stated that the film's sequels are all pointless and rancid, since they advocate vigilantism, unlike his two novels, which make the opposite argument. The film led him to write a follow-up titled Death Sentence, which was published a year after the film's release.