Rolling Marvel Cinematic Universe thread (+ a poll: Classic or Dud?)

the larger point though is this squeezing-out of mid-budget fare. it's not just superheroes doing the squeezing - it's the well-discussed combination of franchise marketing, studios chasing reliable huge international grosses through effects-heavy spectaculars, and streaming options drawing away viewers (especially older viewers).... and it's not just New Cinema veterans losing the chance at wide releases for more serious or adult films, it's the theatrical death of the rom-com, the romantic drama, the police procedural, the biopic, the crime thriller, the espionage thriller, the buddy-cop movie...

there are exceptions to all of these obv, but what fills studios' slates and multiplex schedules is very very different than 10 or 20 years ago and i think it's okay for those who have some clout to complain about this to use that clout, even if it's tilting at windmills.

I feel like there are two biopics in the theatre at any given time. I am sick of them

people just not going to the movies as much people used to killed off mid-level features way more than superhero movies. If there were no blockbuster movies, there would probably just be way less movie theaters.

Yeah, the only one where I think there's been a significant drop-off is police procedural, and there's probably other reasons for that?

ok biopics were maybe a bad one to include in my list... esp ones that can leverage a popular discographic IP.

it's the theatrical death of the rom-com, the romantic drama, the police procedural, the biopic, the crime thriller, the espionage thriller, the buddy-cop movie

tbf most of these formats/genres suck. we just have a different brand of shit now *shrug emoji*

and i mentioned streaming!

it's very hard to say which did more harm. but it's a real thing that when screens are booked up for weeks for a sure thing (often under contractual demand), those screens are not holding something else. there's no way to know if given time to hang around and let word of mouth do its thing (or even to commit to a slow-n-steady marketing campaign, versus opening-weekend-or-bust), certain underperforming, grownup fare might have had time to find its audience.

the success in recent years of a handful of big word-of-mouth hits (girls trip, get out), and of e.g. the handful of "dad movies" that are blockbustery enough to get a chance for dad to notice they exist (dunkirk), and things with yknow "heartland appeal" (american sniper), are also suggestive. yes, streaming and ticket prices are hugely to blame here - it's absolutely just plain harder to get people to go to the movies. but to make room for superhero movies and animated movies, everything else is in and out so fucking fast that water-cooler recommendations become almost pointless. that's a problem for lots of filmmakers or aspiring filmmakers (assuming they want their work seen on the big screen), not just your coppolas and scorseses.

Would it have been okay for him to have frustrations about a massive monopoly reshaping his chosen industry three months ago

Also he didn’t say anything about this; he said the films are “despicable” and that Scorsese was “being kind when he said it wasn’t cinema.”

Seven (7) Marvel films have been released in the 23 months since his last feature was only able to screen for a week despite packing a theatre, and he is an American having his thoughts while flying from a commercial gig in Buenos Aires to one in London. He has to make commercials because he cannot get funding for mid-level features, which have been squeezed out of the market. Would it have been okay for him to have frustrations about a massive monopoly reshaping his chosen industry three months ago, if it’s not okay now?

― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Monday, October 21, 2019 11:10 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Mea culpa, I didn't realize Morbs' filmmaking career had been so directly impacted when I ribbed him for what seemed at the time an unnecessary revive of this thread.

Sorry to break it to you, but Francis Ford Coppola did not direct the battle rap movie or the motorcycle race movie

xp

The worst thing about Marvel becoming so ubiquitous is that thing where everybody has to have an opinion about it now. Ugh.

And just for the record, speaking as a fan of Marvel and their movies, the last thing I want is for every theatrical film to be a Marvel film. Or even a Disney film, since that's really what most people are grousing about.

Shakey otm.

The prequels kind of get an unfair rap in some ways; at least Lucas was trying to do new things. (Though I think Revenge of the Sith is a truly awful movie)

Also, I definitely think there needs to be some kind of regulation, and I suspect there already are some anti-trust rules that could be used against the way Disney especially abuses its position in the market. I think saying 'This isn't cinema!' is a shit way to get at that, though.

heh I almost added a note acknowledging that while objectively unwatchable the prequels could be considered “experimental”

I've thought this exact same thing. (I also actually enjoy AOTC well enough; I think would even rather re-watch it at any given moment than ROTJ... though it is a few pointless action scenes too long)

Also FTR based on his seventies work alone Coppola gets a lifetime pass to play 'old man shaking fist at cloud'. As soon as Scorsese makes one or more films I genuinely love, I will happily grant him a similar pass.

xp And I guess to answer my own question ("why don't those guys pick on their bud Lucas") somewhat; a day before making his "despicable" remark, Coppola apparently said this at a Q&A:

“If you make art that’s not personal, it’s a sin….When I was hired to do ‘The Godfather,’ I tried to do something that was personal, even though I was hired” to work on a pre-existing project, he said. “It’s not that you’re getting hired that’s bad, but just to think of it in terms of some sort of industry success. I would like everyone to make really personal films.”

So while it's kinda an eye-rolling thing to say, I guess the point could be made that Lucas's SW movies are "personal," even when they're bad. Is the same true of the new batch of SW films, though? Why doesn't he pick on those? Do they have a slightly more "personal" touch than the MCU films? Why am I still typing this? (procrastination)

Also, I definitely think there needs to be some kind of regulation, and I suspect there already are some anti-trust rules that could be used against the way Disney especially abuses its position in the market. I think saying 'This isn't cinema!' is a shit way to get at that, though.

Meanwhile, very on-brand.

Your reminder that Werner Herzog - one of the greatest directors and EASILY the greatest human who also happens to direct - went to #SDCC without having heard of it (or "comic cons") and declared it: "Fantastic! I have never seen the collective dream all in one place!" pic.twitter.com/b28gs6ZgwN

— Bob Chipman (@the_moviebob) October 22, 2019

That image alone justifies the invention of photography.

siri show me 'not getting it'

Sir you're holding a banana

I don’t hate the Marvel films because they’re really shit, I hate them because they’re frequently blatant propaganda for US imperialism and they are produced in conjunction with the US military and the CIA, i.e. two of the most murderous organisations to ever exist.

— Louis Allday (@Louis_Allday) October 22, 2019

And also, the cgi is bad.

... Does the CIA think that it's too highly-regarded?

they get excellent restaurant placement but the tuition is outrageous

Just remembered that I actually invented the Venerable New Hollywood Auteur Ranks on Marvel IP-Based Films subgenre during a 2006 phoner with Robert Altman. pic.twitter.com/hRKRtuOGCC

— ℑ 𝔇𝔬𝔫'𝔱 𝔅𝔩𝔞𝔪𝔢 𝔜𝔬𝔲 (@NickPinkerton) October 20, 2019

Robert Altman: all fourteen-year-old boys are gay as fuck

Both "sides" of this debate are equally obnoxious.

Director of x-men certainly could weigh in on that xp

only five of the X-Men pictures over 16 years, it’s not like he really had any influence

x-men movies kinda a bad example bc they're almost entirely awful. little carveout there for bits of FIRST CLASS, Patrick Stewart's scenes in LOGAN, and Oscar Isaac's performance of "Apocalypse, but he's Jeffrey Tambor."

it's amazing to me how badly x-men was handled and how popular they were anyway.

let’s dig up Altman and tell him he was unfair to not think these movies were for serious grown-ups, by ...explaining that they were bad?

Revisionist nonsense - the first two X-Men movies are good-to-great, as are the first two reboots.

xpost who said he was unfair?

the first two x-men movies are turgid and unmemorable. what made the first one significant was that it didn’t *look* like BATMAN & ROBIN.

X2 was totally memorable, gtfo

Nightcrawler BAMFing scene in X2 is good, one of the only times in a superhero movie I’ve seen that the idea of powers is actually conveyed as something otherworldly in a “real” space, genuinely uncanny. Jackman & Paquin carry the first through deadpan. idnrc anything else good about either

I would happily accept a permanent moratorium on all future superhero movies if it meant that the people who dislike their existence (often without having actually seen them) would STFU forever about superheroes.

ive seen a few, thx, is 25 the minimum?

Anyway, speaking of business:

https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/kevin-feige-ike-perlmutter-marvel-disney-1203377802/

every time i see "WandaVision" i feel certain it's a typo

Favreau takes the high road: https://variety.com/2019/film/news/jon-favreau-scorsese-coppola-marvel-films-1203379391/

I worry all this discourse may prevent Martin Scorsese from being cast as Doctor Doom.

— Peter LabuzAAAHH! (@labuzamovies) October 22, 2019

i see him as more of a rhino tbh

the most Almodovar criticism I can think of is superhero movies are bad because the characters don't fuck enough. God bless u Pedro https://t.co/rVNtZDxNeT

— nuanced opinion guy (@charles_kinbote) October 23, 2019

They were so mean (especially Brisn DePalma) they literally made Lucas cry when he was showing them rough cuts of Star Wars. https://t.co/tABxjZzge2

— PETER kupLOEWsky - "AM A VAMPIRE!" (@PeterKapow) October 21, 2019