Does the word "quite", when modifying an adjective, mean "very" or "fairly"?

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Herman's Hermits' song must have confused American fans.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Monday, 4 November 2019 13:54 (four years ago) link

Not as much as the Kinks with "and he likes his fags the best" from "Well Respected Man"

Josefa, Monday, 4 November 2019 13:56 (four years ago) link

I don't think so. Lady & the Tramp came out in 1955 so that usage must have been still relatively current

rob, Monday, 4 November 2019 13:57 (four years ago) link

Actually Otis Redding & Carla Thomas used "tramp" in the traditional way in their 1967 hit "Tramp," so the two meanings coexisted in the US for a while

Josefa, Monday, 4 November 2019 13:59 (four years ago) link

Carla calls Otis a tramp in that song, not the other way around

Josefa, Monday, 4 November 2019 13:59 (four years ago) link

“Tramp” would be equivalent to something like “bum”, it’s a little more derogatory than just saying “homeless person” so ppl avoid it if they don’t wanna be dicks

― YouGov to see it (wins)

the tramps i knew would be very offended at being told they were equivalent to bums

"Not as much as the Kinks with "and he likes his fags the best" from "Well Respected Man"

― Josefa"

god, "harry rag" confused the hell out of me; uk "fag" i can get, but the rhyming slang for it doesn't cross my mind

tantric societal collapse (rushomancy), Monday, 4 November 2019 14:39 (four years ago) link

"tramp" has a connotation of vagrancy, e.g., a homeless person who wanders from place to place; from "tramp" as a verb

Brad C., Monday, 4 November 2019 14:50 (four years ago) link

Carla calls Otis a tramp in that song, not the other way around
This is interesting, cos in 1974 another soul singer, Betty Davis, released "Don't Call Her No Tramp", which clearly assumes the listener knows "tramp" to mean "loose woman". So the shift in the meaning of the word must've been happening around that time?

Tuomas, Monday, 4 November 2019 15:04 (four years ago) link

Would also assume Cher means vagrant in "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves" (1971)

Josefa, Monday, 4 November 2019 15:11 (four years ago) link

although maybe not, maybe that is the exact point when the two meanings transferred

Josefa, Monday, 4 November 2019 15:14 (four years ago) link

god, "harry rag" confused the hell out of me; uk "fag" i can get, but the rhyming slang for it doesn't cross my mind

"Harry Ramp" for "tramp" is more usual rhyming slang but that stuff changes rapidly

Xia Nu del Vague (Noodle Vague), Monday, 4 November 2019 15:31 (four years ago) link

"Harry Rag" is actually Harry Wragg though? I would have thought? (Harry Wragg was a famous jockey, American, Finnish + elsewhere chums).

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Monday, 4 November 2019 16:14 (four years ago) link

wragg and bone, where does that leave us

tramp is such a beano word, i mean does anyone use it

deems of internment (darraghmac), Monday, 4 November 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link

"Tramp" = "loose woman" was well established by 1937 at least: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_Is_a_Tramp

Brad C., Monday, 4 November 2019 20:59 (four years ago) link

Earliest attribution in OED is 1922, quoting Eugene O’Neill, so no doubt predates that if he heard it in the wild.

Dan Worsley, Monday, 4 November 2019 22:00 (four years ago) link

the 'quite' discussion is blowing my mind. i feel like it's one of those pictures that you can see as either convex or concave and once you see it a certain way you can't see it the other way no matter how hard to you try. for me it's always an intensifier, magnitude depending on emphasis

'was it difficult?'
'yes, it was quite difficult'

'was it difficult?'
'yes it was QUITE difficult'

even if i pushed out my lower lip and looked up at the ceiling and shrugged my shoulders and made diffident noises when saying either of these i'd be affirming the difficulty, and adding another little dollop of difficulty onto it. or basically what Brad C. said.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 00:51 (four years ago) link

quite out of the question old boy

deems of internment (darraghmac), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:14 (four years ago) link

its almost....clarifying as certain, but not strengthening as such?

deems of internment (darraghmac), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:14 (four years ago) link

'was it difficult?'
'well, it was quite difficult'

mark s, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link

If you use it twice it definitely strengthens: "it was quite, quite difficult"

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link

but what idiots do that?

(a: me)

the creator has a mazda van (NickB), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:25 (four years ago) link

It's more than strengthening, it's making it absolute.

"It is quite difficult"
"It is quite impossible"

fetter, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:29 (four years ago) link

using 'quite' as a caveat is quite hors de question!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link

just to be clear, when it's preceded with "well" (as in my example) it's clearly a limiting-via-precision and NOT an intensifier

mark s, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link

actually precision is always to the point with this word: other elements in the sentence indicate where on the scale the precision occurs -- "up at the top end!" or "further back than you think!"

mark s, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:57 (four years ago) link

hmm i feel like the rejoinder is saying 'yes, it was very difficult, BUT....'

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 12:58 (four years ago) link

I'd argue that etymologically 'tramp' for 'loose woman' probably comes from the same place as 'tramp' for 'vagrant' / 'hobo' etc, ie not having / maintaining a home, but the connotations for a woman are different for a man in what that means.

'Tramp stamp' I still hear in the UK every so often and everyone gets what that means.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:15 (four years ago) link

Also 'quite' as a modifier in the UK I'd suggest denotes very mild surprise in either direction depending on context - either more easy or more difficult than was expected. All about inflection.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:30 (four years ago) link

Quite!

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:32 (four years ago) link

I wonder if the word 'trollop' influenced the tramp shift somehow

Josefa, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:32 (four years ago) link

tracer it's saying "difficult? difficult to YOU maybe (you lump)"

mark s, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link

"very difficult? yes, if by very difficult you mean quite difficult"

mark s, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:37 (four years ago) link

hahah this usage has utterly passed me by then. what a lump indeed!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:47 (four years ago) link

Tramp stamp' I still hear in the UK every so often and everyone gets what that means.

Can't say I've ever heard that and must admit I'm not 100% sure what it means.

Dan Worsley, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:02 (four years ago) link

Ok found it on urban dictionary. I move in genteel circles which explains my naivety.

Dan Worsley, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:03 (four years ago) link


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