Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

TS: using Latinx vs running concentration camps

(obviously ignore his arguments about democrat electability which i don't care about and/or agree with)

https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea

same topic but data-based

At this moment the FB chat with my closest friends is ablaze because my neolib buddy, a Cuban who just got a master's from a certain Ivy League school, can't understand "Latinx" while my academic buddy defends it.

In Miami, I never hear "Latinx" outside campus. We -- I -- still use "Hispanic" to describe Latin Americans of Spanish descent (which of course doesn't encompass Brazilians).

Are there people who think “Latinx” is offensive because its use implies there is something wrong with gendered nouns—ie something wrong with the Spanish language in general?

And is the response to this that Spanish is a colonial language anyway and it should be deconstructed?

This is what I wonder about this. I’m neutral on the subject, but I wouldn’t use it to describe someone unless I knew they liked the term.

Are there people who think “Latinx” is offensive because its use implies there is something wrong with gendered nouns—ie something wrong with the Spanish language in general?

The few friends who've even heard of the term and reject it do so not because Spanish uses gendered nouns and they prefer them: to them it feels like an imposition, another kind of colonialism.

And is the response to this that Spanish is a colonial language anyway and it should be deconstructed?

In part. My friend arguing for its use writes, "I think the use of terms depends on contexts, too -- so I agree that politicians should used the preferred terms to appeal to the most people (in this case the census-approved hispanic), while also aligning with LGBTQ issues so as to not alienate that group either."

One of the common defenses of political correctness is that it’s just a synonym for politeness, for calling people what they themselves want to be called and showing sensitivity to minority experiences and burdens that men or white people don’t share.

seems critical - if ppl don't want to be called latinx we shouldn't do it

i use latinx, latino, hispanic in different contexts, they each have problems but none of them bother me that much anymore

my issue with latinx is three-pronged:

the über-woke: latinidad is itself a problematic, colonialist, racist construct

the prosaic: in the states there already exists a popular term for latinx people which is gender neutral: hispanic

the anti-elitist: because latinx is primarily used in online social-justice-social-media and academia the majority of people using it are bougie gringx

otoh i do appreciate the issues with the default masculine in spanish, i am happy to use latinx with people who like latinx

what are the issues with the default masculine in spanish

that its default. if you're referring to group of latinos - of unspecified gender - in spanish you use the masculine plural. there is a fairly long-running issue with this in the latin american (and spanish) left and in feminist movements, and a preference for usages such as "latin@s", "latinxs" (which i still see in chilean social media), and "latinx"

(this obviously being in the context of patriarchal societies with high levels of femicide, street harassment, sexual abuse, limited reproductive rights etc.)

I’m always wary of attempts to link linguistic features with real world issues as tho widespread adoption of latinx could potentially address those other very real problems

wait if it's not "latin-ex" how are you supposed to pronounce it

lateen-ex

oh yeah, that's another issue, combines spanish and english pronunciation

the anti-elitist: because latinx is primarily used in online social-justice-social-media and academia the majority of people using it are bougie gringx

I know plenty of people who use latinx who are of the group to which it refers. Yes, they are "SJWs" or "SJW adjacent" ... it makes me wince a bit that you seem to be denying marginalized POC the ability to be both "authentically" POC and active in areas historically dominated by white ppl.

I feel like latinx is functional as a shorthand for "latino/latina" even if you take the issue of gender binary out of the equation. And it feels a bit more inclusive than Hispanic -- in the way that Alfred mentions re Brazilians.

i am latino

Thanks!

ladx

laxs(xx)

sarahell you may be in an unusual group at least acc to that op article the number of latinx ppl who would refer to themselves with that name are marginal

i have latinx coworkers and friends that self identify as latinx; they are entirely under the age of 35.

xp Mordy -- I live in the SF Bay Area -- totally not representative of national norms, I will cop to that no problem

revealed belief: there is something inherently dorky about podcasts

xp at least one latinx friend is trans, so does that make calling them "latinx" more or less objectionable to you?

(nb: i am not going to take my social cues regarding race from ross fucking douthat)

I realize I'm posting anecdotal evidence, but none of the 20 to 30 students I work with closely -- 90 percent of whom are of Latin or South American origin -- identify as Latinx. And we have several gender-nonconforming students in this group.

i misread the name as douchehat

No you read correctly

are you asking me? if that's what they want to be called it seems ok to me i only question the wisdom of using these terms in political stump speeches when the number of ppl in the group who like the term are so marginal. obviously there's a difference between calling someone acc to their personal preference and what you say when talking about / addressing a much larger group. xxp

Warren also "said their names" re trans POC women killed this year, iirc? ... It seems like a strategic, considerate move to connect with progressive ppl who view issues of "identity politics" to be significant, whereas the social media filtered Sanders' messaging doesn't acknowledge these issues as much as some people would find appealing/reassuring? ... Not to bring this thread back to Bernie Bros ... I mean, if I want to talk about Warren vs. Sanders, I could spend even more time on FB

my feeling is that there's a SJ culture and then there are SJ issues and the two aren't synonymous and the former involves stuff like battling over terminology/idiom but is deeply unappealing to many ppl including ppl it supposedly covers and that there are issues that might be more widely popular if divorced from this sorta cultural discursive milieu - my preference is entirely the latter (substantive issues) and not the former (rhetorical maneuvers) at all primarily on pragmatic grounds but also personally i find the whole thing kinda tedious but that's subjective obv

You're not wrong about the sense in which it feels like imposition, but part of the "people it supposedly covers" are LGBT people.

i like latinx because it looks cool. But I also get confused about it so try to state the country instead (colombians, guatemalans) mostly to pause the americans who assume all spanish speakers are mexicans or puerto ricans.

there's a SJ culture and then there are SJ issues and the two aren't synonymous

true, but there is overlap, and the "culture" often is, fuck it, "avant-garde" when it comes to issues or ways in which the issues end up being discussed and framed years/decades later. It's like that "goofy song title" thread -- practices from these esoteric realms often work their way into more popular arenas and then people end up asking, "so where did this come from"?

Does anyone have a link to the progressive pollster poll Douthat is writing about?

https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea

But I also get confused about it so try to state the country instead (colombians, guatemalans) mostly to pause the americans who assume all spanish speakers are mexicans or puerto ricans.

― Yerac, Wednesday, November 6, 2019 4:52 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Obviously this is the ideal solution, and I do find it somewhat frustrating that pushing for this isn't the "SJ" project. Coming up with a more gender-inclusive way to keep using old racial categories sucks, even if I recognize the pragmatics at work (and that latinx might want to find a term to build alliances across national borders).

More appropriate for this thread: having lived through a lot of terminological innovation, I feel like I'm basically waiting for 'latinx' to be replaced with a less tricky term.

lateen-ex

― ت (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, November 6, 2019 2:11 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

fwiw this is what i meant by "latin-x" vs, say, "la-tinx" which was the weird pronunciation i had in my head

Thanks Mordy!

xp, you mean like "lah-tinks?"

"revealed belief: there is something inherently dorky about podcasts."

reveal your deeply true beliefs here

You can also vote for Celtic Dick

Only Built for Cuban L(at)inx

You can also vote for Celtic Dick

― sarahell, Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:25 PM bookmarkflaglink

Procreation of the Wicked makes more sense that way

posts vmic, but i teach at a HS that is 98% latinx. the kids in my lgbt group are more likely to use/self-identify with it, tho not 100%. most of my students in general self-id as mexican. unless there from central america which there are a few. i tend to use latino in class (i teach government) when we're talking politics.

imo it should be pronounced "latinequis" in an extra beto voice

http://www.varsity.co.uk/images/derived/article-objects/md5-f2cb327808a3561c490399774805e5b9/11032.jpeg

cupcakke, the other week:

In the video she claims that she’s ashamed of the music she’s released, much of which is extremely sexual: “I feel as though I’m corrupting the youth… I want to go to heaven after this, and I don’t want to go to hell. Just seeing all-age kids at the shows, seeing them sing along to ‘hump me’ and ‘fuck me’ and all this shit, it has torn me apart. I’m just not happy. I don’t want to be around no one right now… It’s wrong. And even if it’s OK for y’all, it’s not OK with me… I want to be normal again.” She thanks fans and apologizes for letting them down.

ilx, the other day:

This is so weird. I kept seeing this thread. Didn’t realize [Doja Cat] is the artist my 12 yo is obsessing over.

― nathom, Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:27 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

your child has good taste

― J0rdan S., Sunday, November 17, 2019 7:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

idk something just doesn't sit right. idk. someone help work this out. what's good what's bad. is it sexist to be mad about this and not eminem? what if i'm mad about eminem too? what if eminem was 20 years ago? should kids be shielded from this kind of self-expression or is it somehow healthy? etc

or is it even racist to complain about these artists? are there white equivalents? self-sexualising pop stars who infantilise their content to some degree? i'm not the person to be speaking about this lol, someone please step in