Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

deserving complainants jesus

I mean I guess jesus has a valid gripe in all of this but fucker needs to get in line

he wasnt white tbf

back to omar's post upthread, the other thing I hate are the vultures that seem to exist to only say "yeah but", and when any type of positive news comes in, are coming in to say "Here's why this isn't actually good news at all" and go ranting about something everybody already knew about already. like - not all victories are perfect, but is it always "all or nothing".

(2) Stop talking about what you oppose. Start affirming what you'll endorse next year.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

what are my options? i affirm what is worth endorsing now and i'll vote for whoever winds up nominated with a (d) next to their name. i vote and i will continue to vote, but i see no reason to let it define what's Important to me.

Booming post from Mordy I sometimes wonder whether y'all realise that most of what Trump has done is barely different to any other POTUS it's not one douche it's your fucking system

jerryspringeraudience.gif

socialism iow using the state to provide ppl w/ support + a safety net is a perfectly ok thing and the idea that we all should be strong enough to stand without any support at all is sociopathic

How is this a conservative belief tho?

oic that was a response to esby nm

i think ilx should stop worrying so much about trump who is bad but not ahistorically so

-

y'all realise that most of what Trump has done is barely different to any other POTUS

hard disagree

What shifts in policy has he actually effected tho? I recognise he actualized the country's long standing racism which is traditionally done more discreetly.

As far as trump, I think he is def toward the bad end of the historical range but I agree the danger has so far been overstated. Maybe a unique combination of vitriolic hate and sheer incompetence, but if anything the incompetence, while dangerous, may also prevent him from being more effective. He's also blunted by the lumbering and byzantine nature of our political system -- checks and balances do at least halfway work, it turns out. A lot of what I was worried would happen has happened, but to a lesser degree and on a smaller scale. Obviously there are exceptions, e.g. if you are an asylum seeker.

I sometimes wonder whether y'all realise that most of what Trump has done is barely different to any other POTUS it's not one douche it's your fucking system

― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague)

Get outta here. It's a variant on the conservative saw about Nixon happening to get caught, nyuk nyuk. You can argue, plausibly, that many presidents have signed off on evil things (Pierce and Kansas-Nebraska, Buchanan and, well, everything) but Nixon was world-historic in American history. The point of history is to recognize the exceptions; otherwise, you run aground on a cynicism that's synonymous with sentimentality (waaahhh things won't change).

As far as trump, I think he is def toward the bad end of the historical range but I agree the danger has so far been overstated. Maybe a unique combination of vitriolic hate and sheer incompetence, but if anything the incompetence, while dangerous, may also prevent him from being more effective. He's also blunted by the lumbering and byzantine nature of our political system -- checks and balances do at least halfway work, it turns out. A lot of what I was worried would happen has happened, but to a lesser degree and on a smaller scale. Obviously there are exceptions, e.g. if you are an asylum seeker.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive),

You've got the order of your post wrong. He's unique precisely because of his contempt for asylum seekers. This is, "Well, it sucks if you're not like me."

OTT, in terms of what's worse:
1) Immigration policy is undoubtedly worse, whatever you can say about how it was under Obama (which, itself, was historically bad, in part because of the changes effected post-9/11)
2) White nationalist groups have been emboldened, not solely because of Trump but it helps
3) Tax policy has been terrible for all but the wealthy under Trump
4) Obamacare has been damaged by Trump's changes and deliberate neglect
5) Our foreign policy is going to shit (but in more nuanced, national security state senses that I doubt the average person cares about or feels much)
6) Trade policy appears to be harming farmers
7) Corruption, graft and nepotism are much more out in the open and brazen

At the same time, I don't think we are close to dictatorship or any of the other more dire predictions at this point.

I think waaaah things won't change under capitalist faux-democracy, Liberal or otherwise. Even tricky Dicky achieved detente with China which was a bigger achievement than some of the less reviled tossers who held the post.

Maybe some ppl don't remember the dozens of articles about how Trump's administration is nascent fascism and essays by reputable Holocaust scholars like Timothy Snyder explaining how similar our situations are to pre-WW2 Germany but "he's not as bad as GWB" would not have been most ppl's takeaway two years ago and I feel like a lot of ppl haven't noticed yet that those are the circumstances we find ourselves as his first term comes to an end.

I've argued often about Trump as culmination vs aberration. The two are a Venn diagram.

I have a lot of LGBT friends in regular distress based on Trump policies and resurgence of hatemongering and my reactions are often to those expressions of distress. Especially my transgender friends.

I don't think we're on the precipice of dictatorship either but real people I know are affected by this and saying so. And real people I don't know.

That's what I react to - I think the overall point is that those of us who are privileged should be the ones using said privilege to stand up for the disadvantaged rather than wallowing in nihilistic despair all day, absolving ourselves of doing anything.

(I could stand to do more, for sure)

he's probably the new republican normal. they're probably not going to go back to nominating mitt romney types.

otoh their next trumpesque figure probably won't quite have the x factor of ol' donny deals the tv star and hopefully will be less electorally successful

Sadly otm on both counts

Personality cult candidates come along every so often (arguably Clinton and Obama), but you def can't build a party around them long term.

One common take on Bevin losing Kentucky is that he had Trump's vitriol without his charisma.

i may be a little prickly on the topic of "what has he actually DONE, though?" because my former workplace has under attack systematically by a series of corrupt Trump-appointees since the transition began in late 2016, and just about every major environmental regulation has endured reversals and setbacks and completely transparent giveaways to heavy industries that will take years to reverse. that's not even including the effect of the supposed leader of the world actively fighting to make climate change worse.

and I'm a queer person of color for whom not even Bush appointees were so contemptuous toward people like us

I realise he's a terrible president and has materially made life more horrible and scary for a bunch of people, so fair enough. I just think every president was a horrible right wing cunt with blood all over their hands and the aesthetic distaste for Trump is often exaggerated and denies the general truth of the polity.

This is a circular argument. If an administration aims its policies toward making your life a hell, then he's horrible and scary.

"But he is as bad as smiling Ronnie and the dumb Bushes?" doesn't hold much water.

I agree with NV et al on the subject that the current USA president is more of the same---conserving what was before. given that capitalism makes things steadily worse, more of the same means things get relatively worse.

this is all seen from overseas, thank goodness

As I said, fair enough. Awful on a scale full of badness is still awful. Shitty world if people think Biden would be an improvement tho.

Also Reagan, the Bushes, most presidents were capable of enacting more materially harmful policies, surely?

He is less predictable which is scarier, idk about worse. I’ve never been a big reagan guy either.

It's hard to compare 3 years of Trump to 8 years of W or Reagan. So far I think W still did much more real and lasting damage, but there's a lot of time left.

I mean, I hope there isn't a lot of time left, but I'm a pessimist.

No president in my lifetime has had such a pernicious effect upon the electorate, particularly in terms of urging the more susceptible to give in to their basest and most antisocial urges. If he had no other impact during his tenure, that alone puts him head and shoulders above any other POTUS in the 'evil deeds' department. We're going to be dealing with his aftermath for decades.

If you’re an accelerationist type he is good. No one could do more to make the US government seem stupider and less legitimate than he does.

I always enjoyed Hunter S arguing that Ford was more pernicious than Nixon because his clown persona distracted from what he was actually doing

There is some truth to that kind of analysis. Trump seems monstrous and is monstrous; maybe this is “better” than someone who seems like a humble public servant but is monstrous. Idk. I despise this fucking guy.

Certainly not making a case for Trump but yeah in some ways it's good when everybody can see what's on the end of the fork

I always enjoyed Hunter S arguing that Ford was more pernicious than Nixon because his clown persona distracted from what he was actually doing

― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague),

This is true and also true of Reagan's amiability.

it seems, in some ways, however, harder to oppose a regime like trump's as it is so chaotic and dysfunctional and he covers up everything he does with a whirlwind of outrageous lies. it's like a moving target.

seems like people who don't think he's had an out of ordinary effect don't really care about the people/things he's had an out of ordinary effect on.

that's why so many people got sucked into the russiagate conspiracy. they were looking for a pattern that would make sense of the traumatic idiocy of the situation.

xp

The lying thing seems on a different scale with Trump. Also he's a moron, but then that's hardly new and, of course, Twitter didn't exist.

jfc did anyone read the mueller report

just the executive summaries

I think what treeship means wrt "Russiagate" is the grand theory that Trump is "Putin's Puppet" and everything that's happening can be attributed to a neat and tidy plot by Russia.

It's not just that guy - it's also the sort of people he has given power to (in government) and those he has emboldened (in the public arena).

The absolute worst people in the country were elated by his rise. They felt ecstatically vindicated by his victory. And they act out their horribleness more loudly and more openly than they did beforehand, because they believe the Trump ascendancy gives them greater impunity to be the assholes that they are.

xp That's just easier to make sense of than what seems more likely to me, which is that a narcissistic sociopathic reality tv host and landlord tapped into a perfect storm of resentment, ignorance, confusion, backlash, a weak democratic party and candidate, and certain shifts in right-wing thought and strategy both nationally and globally, through a combination of savvy and luck, and that Russia probably helped a bit but isn't the prime mover here.

So what your saying is, the system is fucked and enables monsters?