I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not music

gtfo

I can totally understand why the crooners became a sensation, after centuries of singers belting it out full force on stage trying to reach the punters in the back you suddenly get to hear measured, velvery soft voices on your radio, it must have been amazing.

Sinatra's conversational cadences are why I love him.

The distinction between "jazz" and "pop" is pretty fuzzy wrt the pre-rock era tbf.
Not fuzzy at all when you consider that one genre relies heavily on improvisation and the other does not.

How strictly did most people recognize that distinction at the time? Sinatra sang with Tommy Dorsey's and Harry James's big bands, he topped Down Beat's vocalist poll in 1941.

Sinatra played with jazz giants throughout his whole career - Dorsey, Basie, Jobim etc.

er sang with

The ballads are nice but I like the corny, swinging Sinatra even more. My favorite is Sinatra at the Sands because you get the corny jokes and banter as well.

Sinatra, Elvis, Streisand — undeniably enormously talented, but I'm not interested in the material they applied it to. (Exceptions apply for all 3)

How strictly did most people recognize that distinction at the time? Sinatra sang with Tommy Dorsey's and Harry James's big bands, he topped Down Beat's vocalist poll in 1941.

Sinatra played with jazz giants throughout his whole career - Dorsey, Basie, Jobim etc.
He also collaborated with Bono. That doesn't make him a pretentious rock poseur, however.

http://johnlahr.com/frank-sinatra/

― Οὖτις, Friday, December 20, 2019 11:12 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Great piece! Thanks.

i read that piece a while back, it's great

it's also weird that ppl keep bringing up elvis in this thread, he really has very little in common w/ sinatra apart from being a dude who sings

My favorite is Sinatra at the Sands because you get the corny jokes and banter as well.

I was listening to this earlier in the week - I agree that it's great (albeit not my favorite) - and so many of the jokes are totally inscrutable, not just because there's audience interaction clearly going on that couldn't be captured in an audio recording, but more because so much of the context for his rambling is incomprehensible from a remove of 5+ decades.

Granted, the Dino jokes are still funny.

i think it's just the prevalent (and, occasionally in their latter years, accurate) image of them both being corny showmen more than inspired musicians.

Sinatra rules of course, i actually prefer him to Elvis tbqf

I do too and its not even close

same

same

Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not music

gtfo

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

dang, that is stone cold!

i love sinatra - esp love the recent 3-disc Standing Room Only (with shows from Sands in 66, Spectrum in Philly in 74 and Reunion Arena in Dallas in 87).

does hurting still hate him in 2019? hard to imagine someone hating him tho i do understand hating him if yr only exposure is New York New York

i love elvis but his career is incredibly inconsistent even during his "good" periods. there are tons of sinatra albums i can put on and enjoy from start to finish, which is not really the case with elvis other than the sun sessions.

Frank over Elvis here, too.

Miles Davis once said Sinatra inspired much of his phrasing on the trumpet.

He said something similar about Blossom Dearie as well, iirc.

I love Frank, it's Dino who leaves me cold.

Dino seems like the more likable *person* but christ his records are bad

is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface

Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't

Elvis was a huge fan and debtor

Dean's career is basically an inside joke, which is abundantly clear when you see vintage Martin & Lewis TV appearances, and he's as funny as Jerry.

not denying he was v funny, and charming when singing on-screen. but the records? nah

wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind

it's all bobby mcpherrin, all day in my world

also frank rules.

I'm listening to Terry Callier right now! Man could scat.

I *love* Callier, esp The New Folk Sound of

scott walker scats lol

Harry Nilsson did a fair bit fwiw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZblX-nhdLE

... and Big Youth!

Steven Tyler, people!

Also: it's sad that Sinatra never got around to covering "Dream On".

it's never been mentioned itt but A Man Alone has a couple gloomy gems even if the concept is almost unbearably goofy (though of course not as goofy as "The Future")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trash_Can_Sinatras
― mh, Wednesday, February 7, 2018 9:04 AM (one year ago)

the only sinatra that matters.

Steven Tyler, people!

Travel news with Valerie Sinatra (The Day Today) pic.twitter.com/hYkYphHxnd

— Chris Morris Bits (@Morris_Bits) March 1, 2018

is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface

The two volume biography by James Kaplan is supposed to be the one to go for, much like Guralnick’s bios of Presley. Caveat is I haven’t read them.

I don’t know if there’s a thread for acts whose best album is a live album, but for me Sinatra is in that category with a few others, Johnny Cash comes to mind. Both were kind of larger than life characters and that really comes through on albums like At the Sands or At Folsom Prison.

wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind

― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 20, 2019 2:32 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Dizzy Gillespie's 1940s work with his big band gets regular play in my house.

I don't really understand the Elvis vs. Sinatra thing; they were such fundamentally different performers, with fundamentally different approaches. Sinatra could only make a ridiculous fool of himself if he ever attempted what Elvis did on "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" or "How Great Thou Art," just as Elvis would've been at sea if he'd tried to do what Frank did on "Mood Indigo" or "Something," the latter being a particularly clear illustration of how each approached the same material from different angles/perspectives.

It's really just the generational thing about Elvis displacing Sinatra as the most popular solo singer, and VEGAS.

just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer