I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

i read that piece a while back, it's great

it's also weird that ppl keep bringing up elvis in this thread, he really has very little in common w/ sinatra apart from being a dude who sings

My favorite is Sinatra at the Sands because you get the corny jokes and banter as well.

I was listening to this earlier in the week - I agree that it's great (albeit not my favorite) - and so many of the jokes are totally inscrutable, not just because there's audience interaction clearly going on that couldn't be captured in an audio recording, but more because so much of the context for his rambling is incomprehensible from a remove of 5+ decades.

Granted, the Dino jokes are still funny.

i think it's just the prevalent (and, occasionally in their latter years, accurate) image of them both being corny showmen more than inspired musicians.

Sinatra rules of course, i actually prefer him to Elvis tbqf

I do too and its not even close

same

same

Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not music

gtfo

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

dang, that is stone cold!

i love sinatra - esp love the recent 3-disc Standing Room Only (with shows from Sands in 66, Spectrum in Philly in 74 and Reunion Arena in Dallas in 87).

does hurting still hate him in 2019? hard to imagine someone hating him tho i do understand hating him if yr only exposure is New York New York

i love elvis but his career is incredibly inconsistent even during his "good" periods. there are tons of sinatra albums i can put on and enjoy from start to finish, which is not really the case with elvis other than the sun sessions.

Frank over Elvis here, too.

Miles Davis once said Sinatra inspired much of his phrasing on the trumpet.

He said something similar about Blossom Dearie as well, iirc.

I love Frank, it's Dino who leaves me cold.

Dino seems like the more likable *person* but christ his records are bad

is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface

Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't

Elvis was a huge fan and debtor

Dean's career is basically an inside joke, which is abundantly clear when you see vintage Martin & Lewis TV appearances, and he's as funny as Jerry.

not denying he was v funny, and charming when singing on-screen. but the records? nah

wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind

it's all bobby mcpherrin, all day in my world

also frank rules.

I'm listening to Terry Callier right now! Man could scat.

I *love* Callier, esp The New Folk Sound of

scott walker scats lol

Harry Nilsson did a fair bit fwiw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZblX-nhdLE

... and Big Youth!

Steven Tyler, people!

Also: it's sad that Sinatra never got around to covering "Dream On".

it's never been mentioned itt but A Man Alone has a couple gloomy gems even if the concept is almost unbearably goofy (though of course not as goofy as "The Future")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trash_Can_Sinatras
― mh, Wednesday, February 7, 2018 9:04 AM (one year ago)

the only sinatra that matters.

Steven Tyler, people!

Travel news with Valerie Sinatra (The Day Today) pic.twitter.com/hYkYphHxnd

— Chris Morris Bits (@Morris_Bits) March 1, 2018

is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface

The two volume biography by James Kaplan is supposed to be the one to go for, much like Guralnick’s bios of Presley. Caveat is I haven’t read them.

I don’t know if there’s a thread for acts whose best album is a live album, but for me Sinatra is in that category with a few others, Johnny Cash comes to mind. Both were kind of larger than life characters and that really comes through on albums like At the Sands or At Folsom Prison.

wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind

― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 20, 2019 2:32 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Dizzy Gillespie's 1940s work with his big band gets regular play in my house.

I don't really understand the Elvis vs. Sinatra thing; they were such fundamentally different performers, with fundamentally different approaches. Sinatra could only make a ridiculous fool of himself if he ever attempted what Elvis did on "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" or "How Great Thou Art," just as Elvis would've been at sea if he'd tried to do what Frank did on "Mood Indigo" or "Something," the latter being a particularly clear illustration of how each approached the same material from different angles/perspectives.

It's really just the generational thing about Elvis displacing Sinatra as the most popular solo singer, and VEGAS.

just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer

I listen to a fair amount of music w/scat singing and would like I register the following Challenging Opinions itt for posterity:

Frank Sinatra could reasonably be considered a jazz singer
Frank Sinatra was a good singer
Frank Sinatra has a few pretty good to really good albums

(Nb: I am also in the mafia)

Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't

Elvis was a huge fan and debtor

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 2:27 PM

just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, December 20, 2019 5:13 PM

double helix

At least it was below Ornette Coleman's dignity to bang Nancy Reagan on the floor of some backroom in the Whitehouse. And didn't old Blue Eyes have some oedipal thing going on in the early days?

I used to work and often drink with with an Afro-Caribbean guy known as "Chicken" who was a Frank obsessive and karaoke king, had a huge portrait of him on the feature wall of his lounge. He always dressed in crap suits and wore a trilby with a pigeon feather in it. I'm not making this up!

I suspect Sinatra was a rather shitty person but I've never esp believed that Reagan story. I don't think he liked em that twiglike.

anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSawinsjVKs

Can’t speak to his unpleasant personal failings but, in addition to Miles Davis, I believe Lester Young also listened extensively to Sinatra, particularly ballads.

Another similarity between Frank and Elvis: have heard stories about both of them, at least during certain points in their career about both of them being very active in the studio in the arrangement/production of their records, despite being “only” vocalists.

Finally, since Dornröschen has outed themself as a celebrated jazz pianist, would love to know the roster of scat-tastic singers they have accompanied.

https://kyigt1bcans3ofli94di0kch-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/9/files/2013/12/skatkat.jpg

Who knew Wynton Marsalis had so many ILM socks?

https://i.imgur.com/TX1u5zZ.jpg

I think there is an edge of sarcasm in Frank's voice that always seems to crowd out any warmth. Check his duet with Bing "Well, did you evah..", ok, he's supposed to be drunk, but there's a mean edge in there. Contrast that with other swing singers like Dino and Bing. Someone mentioned Terry Callier upthread, well he has swing in his voice, but it's rich and warm.

mean (I'd just call it edgy) often works w/ Cole Porter

Sinatra is usually warm in the ballads, at least in his prime