i think it's just the prevalent (and, occasionally in their latter years, accurate) image of them both being corny showmen more than inspired musicians.
― omar little, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Sinatra rules of course, i actually prefer him to Elvis tbqf
I do too and its not even close
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
same
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 18:46 (four years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not musicgtfo― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
gtfo
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
dang, that is stone cold!
― Legacy of Banality (Pillbox), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
i love sinatra - esp love the recent 3-disc Standing Room Only (with shows from Sands in 66, Spectrum in Philly in 74 and Reunion Arena in Dallas in 87).
does hurting still hate him in 2019? hard to imagine someone hating him tho i do understand hating him if yr only exposure is New York New York
― Mordy, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
i love elvis but his career is incredibly inconsistent even during his "good" periods. there are tons of sinatra albums i can put on and enjoy from start to finish, which is not really the case with elvis other than the sun sessions.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:07 (four years ago) link
Frank over Elvis here, too.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
Miles Davis once said Sinatra inspired much of his phrasing on the trumpet.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
He said something similar about Blossom Dearie as well, iirc.
I love Frank, it's Dino who leaves me cold.
― fetter, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:16 (four years ago) link
Dino seems like the more likable *person* but christ his records are bad
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't
Elvis was a huge fan and debtor
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
Dean's career is basically an inside joke, which is abundantly clear when you see vintage Martin & Lewis TV appearances, and he's as funny as Jerry.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link
not denying he was v funny, and charming when singing on-screen. but the records? nah
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
it's all bobby mcpherrin, all day in my world
― xmas respecter (jim in vancouver), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:34 (four years ago) link
also frank rules.
I'm listening to Terry Callier right now! Man could scat.
― fetter, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:35 (four years ago) link
I *love* Callier, esp The New Folk Sound of
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link
scott walker scats lol
― ingredience (map), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
Harry Nilsson did a fair bit fwiw.
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZblX-nhdLE
― omar little, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
... and Big Youth!
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link
Steven Tyler, people!
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:49 (four years ago) link
Also: it's sad that Sinatra never got around to covering "Dream On".
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
it's never been mentioned itt but A Man Alone has a couple gloomy gems even if the concept is almost unbearably goofy (though of course not as goofy as "The Future")
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trash_Can_Sinatras― mh, Wednesday, February 7, 2018 9:04 AM (one year ago)
the only sinatra that matters.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Friday, 20 December 2019 20:20 (four years ago) link
― calstars, Friday, 20 December 2019 20:21 (four years ago) link
Travel news with Valerie Sinatra (The Day Today) pic.twitter.com/hYkYphHxnd— Chris Morris Bits (@Morris_Bits) March 1, 2018
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 20:25 (four years ago) link
The two volume biography by James Kaplan is supposed to be the one to go for, much like Guralnick’s bios of Presley. Caveat is I haven’t read them.
― Dan Worsley, Friday, 20 December 2019 20:32 (four years ago) link
I don’t know if there’s a thread for acts whose best album is a live album, but for me Sinatra is in that category with a few others, Johnny Cash comes to mind. Both were kind of larger than life characters and that really comes through on albums like At the Sands or At Folsom Prison.
― o. nate, Friday, 20 December 2019 21:27 (four years ago) link
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 20, 2019 2:32 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Dizzy Gillespie's 1940s work with his big band gets regular play in my house.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 20 December 2019 21:50 (four years ago) link
I don't really understand the Elvis vs. Sinatra thing; they were such fundamentally different performers, with fundamentally different approaches. Sinatra could only make a ridiculous fool of himself if he ever attempted what Elvis did on "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" or "How Great Thou Art," just as Elvis would've been at sea if he'd tried to do what Frank did on "Mood Indigo" or "Something," the latter being a particularly clear illustration of how each approached the same material from different angles/perspectives.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 20 December 2019 21:55 (four years ago) link
It's really just the generational thing about Elvis displacing Sinatra as the most popular solo singer, and VEGAS.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 20 December 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 22:13 (four years ago) link
I listen to a fair amount of music w/scat singing and would like I register the following Challenging Opinions itt for posterity:Frank Sinatra could reasonably be considered a jazz singer Frank Sinatra was a good singerFrank Sinatra has a few pretty good to really good albums
― warn me about a lurking rake (One Eye Open), Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link
(Nb: I am also in the mafia)
― warn me about a lurking rake (One Eye Open), Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:06 (four years ago) link
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 2:27 PM
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, December 20, 2019 5:13 PM
double helix
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:10 (four years ago) link
At least it was below Ornette Coleman's dignity to bang Nancy Reagan on the floor of some backroom in the Whitehouse. And didn't old Blue Eyes have some oedipal thing going on in the early days?
I used to work and often drink with with an Afro-Caribbean guy known as "Chicken" who was a Frank obsessive and karaoke king, had a huge portrait of him on the feature wall of his lounge. He always dressed in crap suits and wore a trilby with a pigeon feather in it. I'm not making this up!
― calzino, Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:24 (four years ago) link
I suspect Sinatra was a rather shitty person but I've never esp believed that Reagan story. I don't think he liked em that twiglike.
anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSawinsjVKs
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 21 December 2019 02:47 (four years ago) link
Can’t speak to his unpleasant personal failings but, in addition to Miles Davis, I believe Lester Young also listened extensively to Sinatra, particularly ballads.Another similarity between Frank and Elvis: have heard stories about both of them, at least during certain points in their career about both of them being very active in the studio in the arrangement/production of their records, despite being “only” vocalists.Finally, since Dornröschen has outed themself as a celebrated jazz pianist, would love to know the roster of scat-tastic singers they have accompanied.
― Don’t Slander Meme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 21 December 2019 13:16 (four years ago) link
https://kyigt1bcans3ofli94di0kch-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/9/files/2013/12/skatkat.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 21 December 2019 13:49 (four years ago) link
Who knew Wynton Marsalis had so many ILM socks?
― a very powerful woman in the dog world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 December 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/TX1u5zZ.jpg
― calstars, Saturday, 21 December 2019 18:21 (four years ago) link
I think there is an edge of sarcasm in Frank's voice that always seems to crowd out any warmth. Check his duet with Bing "Well, did you evah..", ok, he's supposed to be drunk, but there's a mean edge in there. Contrast that with other swing singers like Dino and Bing. Someone mentioned Terry Callier upthread, well he has swing in his voice, but it's rich and warm.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, 22 December 2019 15:41 (four years ago) link
mean (I'd just call it edgy) often works w/ Cole Porter
Sinatra is usually warm in the ballads, at least in his prime
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 December 2019 15:55 (four years ago) link
I listened to ‘Only the Lonely’ on a whim (partly stirred by this thread) and found myself enjoying it. The late Romantic orchestral sheen à la Delius or even early Berg and Debussy got me, as well as the fact that Frank isn’t really ‘crooning’.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 22 December 2019 16:42 (four years ago) link
late Sinatra (My Way etc) sounds grumpy af to my ears ... also the Live w Count Basie his crowd banter he sounds like he is moments away from telling audience to fuck off but i agree w morbs, the meanness works w porter - cocky, even? - and his ballads have a lot of warmth
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 December 2019 16:50 (four years ago) link