I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

I don’t know if there’s a thread for acts whose best album is a live album, but for me Sinatra is in that category with a few others, Johnny Cash comes to mind. Both were kind of larger than life characters and that really comes through on albums like At the Sands or At Folsom Prison.

wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind

― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 20, 2019 2:32 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Dizzy Gillespie's 1940s work with his big band gets regular play in my house.

I don't really understand the Elvis vs. Sinatra thing; they were such fundamentally different performers, with fundamentally different approaches. Sinatra could only make a ridiculous fool of himself if he ever attempted what Elvis did on "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" or "How Great Thou Art," just as Elvis would've been at sea if he'd tried to do what Frank did on "Mood Indigo" or "Something," the latter being a particularly clear illustration of how each approached the same material from different angles/perspectives.

It's really just the generational thing about Elvis displacing Sinatra as the most popular solo singer, and VEGAS.

just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer

I listen to a fair amount of music w/scat singing and would like I register the following Challenging Opinions itt for posterity:

Frank Sinatra could reasonably be considered a jazz singer
Frank Sinatra was a good singer
Frank Sinatra has a few pretty good to really good albums

(Nb: I am also in the mafia)

Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't

Elvis was a huge fan and debtor

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 2:27 PM

just to bring it full circle: elvis called dean martin his favoite singer

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, December 20, 2019 5:13 PM

double helix

At least it was below Ornette Coleman's dignity to bang Nancy Reagan on the floor of some backroom in the Whitehouse. And didn't old Blue Eyes have some oedipal thing going on in the early days?

I used to work and often drink with with an Afro-Caribbean guy known as "Chicken" who was a Frank obsessive and karaoke king, had a huge portrait of him on the feature wall of his lounge. He always dressed in crap suits and wore a trilby with a pigeon feather in it. I'm not making this up!

I suspect Sinatra was a rather shitty person but I've never esp believed that Reagan story. I don't think he liked em that twiglike.

anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSawinsjVKs

Can’t speak to his unpleasant personal failings but, in addition to Miles Davis, I believe Lester Young also listened extensively to Sinatra, particularly ballads.

Another similarity between Frank and Elvis: have heard stories about both of them, at least during certain points in their career about both of them being very active in the studio in the arrangement/production of their records, despite being “only” vocalists.

Finally, since Dornröschen has outed themself as a celebrated jazz pianist, would love to know the roster of scat-tastic singers they have accompanied.

https://kyigt1bcans3ofli94di0kch-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/9/files/2013/12/skatkat.jpg

Who knew Wynton Marsalis had so many ILM socks?

https://i.imgur.com/TX1u5zZ.jpg

I think there is an edge of sarcasm in Frank's voice that always seems to crowd out any warmth. Check his duet with Bing "Well, did you evah..", ok, he's supposed to be drunk, but there's a mean edge in there. Contrast that with other swing singers like Dino and Bing. Someone mentioned Terry Callier upthread, well he has swing in his voice, but it's rich and warm.

mean (I'd just call it edgy) often works w/ Cole Porter

Sinatra is usually warm in the ballads, at least in his prime

I listened to ‘Only the Lonely’ on a whim (partly stirred by this thread) and found myself enjoying it. The late Romantic orchestral sheen à la Delius or even early Berg and Debussy got me, as well as the fact that Frank isn’t really ‘crooning’.

late Sinatra (My Way etc) sounds grumpy af to my ears ... also the Live w Count Basie his crowd banter he sounds like he is moments away from telling audience to fuck off

but i agree w morbs, the meanness works w porter - cocky, even? - and his ballads have a lot of warmth

also the Live w Count Basie his crowd banter he sounds like he is moments away from telling audience to fuck off

but i agree w morbs, the meanness works w porter - cocky, even? - and his ballads have a lot of warmth

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, December 22, 2019 11:50 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, complaining about Sinatra sounding too cocky is like complaining about Moon playing too many fills.

both are valid?

Have a soft spot for Frank as he was a big influence on me when I was developing my singing style.

Loved his version of Webb's "Didn't We"

Yeah, complaining about Sinatra sounding too cocky is like complaining about Moon playing too many fills.

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:03 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

both are valid?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:11 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.

Have a soft spot for Frank as he was a big influence on me when I was developing my singing style.

Q: I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

A: exactly this alone, as you deserve to be:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/No_One_Cares_%28Frank_Sinatra_album_-_cover_art%29.jpg/220px-No_One_Cares_%28Frank_Sinatra_album_-_cover_art%29.jpg

well played

Heh.

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.

That doesn't invalidate the criticism

i’m now imagining your singing style as a sinatra croon delivered at a king diamond pitch and if i’m wrong please don’t correct me because i think it might be the sound i’ve been looking for my whole life

― brought a kiss to the knife fight (bizarro gazzara), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:43 PM bookmarkflaglink

this heart of miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine
belongs to Amonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

*tips fedora, throws up insouciant devil horns*

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.
That doesn't invalidate the criticism

This Metallica is too metallic. This hamburger tastes like beef. This weed got me stoned. Frank Sinatra was too cocky/took my dame. You go to Sinatra when you want cocky brio.

the ballad/"wrist-slitter" albums (as Frank called them) are 99% cocky brio-free tho, and also some of his best material.

I would argue that the manic-depressive contrast between those two approaches ("No One Cares" vs. "Come Fly With Me" for ex) is one of the keys to his greatness.

And Sinatra knew what he was doing, because he basically alternated releasing upbeat and downbeat albums for a number of years. If the new swingin' album wasn't your cup of tea you could just wait a few months for the next wrist-slitter to come out.

This Metallica is too metallic. This hamburger tastes like beef. This weed got me stoned. Frank Sinatra was too cocky/took my dame. You go to Sinatra when you want cocky brio.

horrible analogies lol

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

you could think that but you would be wrong

hi welcome to the world of ilx

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

So do you not like cocky music/vocalists at all? Cause if you don't, then my analogy is valid. If you do like cocky vocalists, let me know the vocalist you think is the optimal level of cocky. Thanks.

you kinda have to be cocky to be a good vocalist. it's the only way to evaporate all of the tension that prevents you from being a good singer in the first place

Lol why does this hinge on what I personally like?

i don't personally give a shit, just hear for the martinis

sit next to me, find out

Granny, I love you but . . .

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 5:30 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol why does this hinge on what I personally like?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 8:56 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

still driving me insane to think about how many clearly rong posts have been made abt the legend frank sinatra

fwiw about 10 years ago i got super into 'songs for swingin' lovers' and its never let me down ... ace A++ album

yup -- it was a domino tournament album for years in my crew, well into 2003.

I was feeling this one the other night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0wkmVBg_c

yes! love that album so much!

I was just about to link Angel Eyes... albeit this more fragile TV version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub8l94E9Q5A

I’m sure there must be some good takedowns of Frankie to be found in old newspapers with older critics going “this kid’s ok but he’s clearly no Caruso”.

https://i.imgur.com/x7zTWpT.jpg

Brilliant

Never cared for him much, until I heard his "Send In The Clowns"... now boosted by the end credits of Joker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOUrnUktTjU