Taking Sides: Smiths vs. REM

"Don't Fear the Reaper" is better than anything by R. E. M.

Odd this Smiths/REM thing.

"The Revenge of Vera Gemini" must be better than anything R. E. M. or Michael Stipe did with Patti Smith. You know, the more I think about it . . . Taking Sides: Agents of Fortune vs Document.

But then note how they transform it from this knotty, edgy, post-punk thing into a groove-kid singalong?

(Plus: 5% of REM fans now might realize that, but circa Document, that percentage would have been way higher.)

No contest. The former has everything going for it: "Don't Fear the Reaper," "Vera Gemini," "Debbie Denise," "This Ain't the Summer of Love" before such sentiments were de rigeur. Document: bright pop album meant to evoke heady pre-millenial hands-in-air furrowed-brow "serious" dancing. Agents of Fortune: dark pop album meant to scare little children and give guys in Stingrays something to play while they do donuts in the high school parking lot.

But the Smiths lyrics are much much better, and they were also more original musically, stylistically and in subject matter.

Granted that REM only become a boring rock band after 'Green' and we're only truly original on their first two albums, and that it's not their fault that the FM 'sound' of 'good' American rock today is largely of their making. The same could have happened to the Smiths 'sound', but I'm glad it didn't. But perhaps this is becuaee they were at heart more 'original' than REM.

That's because England = the Greeks and America = the Romans. :)

Julian Casablancas to thread!!

Right, I'm as big an REM as you're likely to find on ILM, and even I know NAIHF was a crock of shit.

"NAIHF was a crock of shit" Dom Passantino
well thats your opinion.
dude you want to tell me thet no morrisey album was a "crock of shit" too. every artist has his good times and bad times.

by the way im a huge Smiths and Morrisey fan too.

mark s- how abt 'influance' as an alternative to influence. I'd say that's preety good, don't you?!

"Julian Casablancas to thread!!"
you're right, i read they even hang out togather (seriously).
forgot the strokes frontman. im a strokes fan too.

It's very hard to criticise lyrics that have saved someone's life, and some of the ealry REM lyrics have indeed helped me through some hard times too, but they're just a bit too often too unfocused or too 'clever' wordy to also be great poetry. I think Stipe had a harder time crafting words than Morrissey. Stipe sometimes says great things poorly, occasionally says them well; Morrissey can talk about drivel and still say it greatly. That's the difference.

Re Nirvana et al, yeh, you're right, just trying to make a point. But ever since I heard the Friends theme tune and thought 'you mean Murmur was responsible for THIS?' it's struck me how far the REM sound has penetrated the mainstream.

Which isn't a wish I blame anyone for, but I've lots of respect for those who choose not to make life more simple.

Morrissey and Stipe where friends for a while. I remember Moz said Stipe and he had in common an awareness of the imminence of death, or words to that effect. The Smiths history shows greater courage in the face of mortality than REM's.

Oh shit, did I really write that?

I thought that was why Michael Stipe was largely liked...after all, Morrissey did send him flowers.

REM were great now they are annoying.

Fuck, what was so great about R. E. M. again?
The Big Star leg humping part was the grebt part.

Huh.

Forget Julian -- every emo band ever to thread!

Current Favorite Moz Solo Moment: "The Girl Least Likely To" is sublime.

R.E.M. are one of the best bands ever!

the smiths represent just about everything i dislike about mopey teens and their petty dramas, totally understandable up to a point, but not much fun to listen to,

to me The Smiths ( or their singles at least ) just represent one great pop song after another . immense fun, and nobody takes moz seriously do they?

The three last albums by R.E.M. have all been among their best ever.