If Bernie is going to be president he is going to need lots of people far worse than Rogan to vote for him. If he's able to do that without changing his message thats great
We may have forgotten to note that the NYT sucks too, post their endorsement of Warren Klobuchar, although search is currently broken for me
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
I find it hard to believe we could have gone a day without pointing out NYT sucks, but if true it's definitely an oversight.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 14:58 (four years ago) link
Yeah as a trans woman, reading the comments on the various Twitter threads just makes me super-excited to have Rogan's fans brought into the fold.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:02 (four years ago) link
yeah yeah but remember! Separate fans from the candidate!
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:05 (four years ago) link
it's not like by voting for someone else these people will suddenly go away
even the worst people shoud be welcome in supporting the right candidate—not least because they're injuring their own cause
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:07 (four years ago) link
"can you wipe the grime off of the ballot when they hand them in?" is kind of the eternal question of getting votes
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:08 (four years ago) link
FOr me this is no different than the "we have to go after rural diner NYT article voters." No thanks. Let's just get the nonvoters activated and stop vote suppression instead.
Alternatively, depending on numbers, they may be injuring MY cause.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
only to the extent they influence the candidate
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
The nonvoters aren't necessarily good people either, I'm afraid.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:10 (four years ago) link
true
getting bigots on board with Bernie—and inclined to defend him—is more likely to influence their thinking than his
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:11 (four years ago) link
What a bizarre idea
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:12 (four years ago) link
Separate fans from the candidate!
DJT, former big fan of the Clintons and Pelosi
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link
xp sorry I don't have a lot of trust in that
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link
you think Bernie Sanders is going to start adopting the positions of Joe Rogan YT commenters?
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
Otm. Can’t say I’m enthused about Rogan either - he’s way too much of an enthusiastic mainstreamer of extremists and is laundering a lot of malign ideas by hosting certain guests. But I guess Bernie isn’t fucking around and he’ll take the support where it comes from.
― steer karma (gyac), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
not too concerned about Roganheads influencing Bernie tbh. he never changes, remember?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mayor-bernie-sanders-created-an-80s-trans-mecca-in-burlington
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII),
I'm not following this.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
Rogans audience aren't more or less bigoted than NYT readers
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:15 (four years ago) link
It's not really about 'adopting positions', it's about what policies to focus on and invest political capital in. Bernie can be the greatest person on earth, it's not a comforting idea that he'll rely on transphobes for reelection.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:16 (four years ago) link
If Warren wins, she will have relied on transphobes for re-election also
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:17 (four years ago) link
I'm not going to apologize for not being thrilled about an influx of "no bIOlogiCAL MEn IN WOmen'S sPOrTS" chowderheads into the Bernie camp, sorry. Lie down with dogs etc.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:17 (four years ago) link
and she tried to go on Rogan herself
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:18 (four years ago) link
With newfound respect for a political leader comes greater openness to their *other* ideas as well, be it only up to a point. I'm surprised this is controversial.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:18 (four years ago) link
It's admittedly not much but…
It's not 'controversial' as much as it seems completely wrong
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:19 (four years ago) link
Identifying with a particular group for reason x makes you more receptive to adjacent, initially less appealing reasons y and z.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:20 (four years ago) link
i dont care if rogan likes bernie, i do care that bernie's camp promotes the endorsement as worthwhile
― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:21 (four years ago) link
That's fair.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:21 (four years ago) link
no president has ever been elected by refusing to lie down with dogs
we can only try to support the candidate least likely to get up with them, too
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
no dem nominee, for that matter
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
[Rogan] endorsed Ron Paul in the 2012 U.S. presidential campaign[76] and Gary Johnson in the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign.[77]
Johnson to Bernie in four years?
― jmm, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison),
He went on the show so why wouldn't he? Is there an idea here that Warren didn't attempt the same strategy?
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
Yeah, idg how this is wrong. What does it even mean for someone to be a leader otherwise?
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:24 (four years ago) link
i'm sorry this tangent is even happening, obv way to go bernie for getting that pretty massive audience, and no i don't believe that this endorsement means we're getting president joe rogan though that's surely not too far down the line. i just hate joe rogan and that he has an audience at all, nothing i can do about that. also liz otm
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:25 (four years ago) link
― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison), Friday, January 24, 2020 8:21 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
idk i tuned this out after the "hot girls like bernie" memes started happening the other week
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:26 (four years ago) link
And outside of Bernie, I just can't get with the idea that Rogans giant audience is somehow TooFarGone and irredeemable, or some homogenous mass that can't be engaged with. I don't see how shunning works better than engaging
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link
The problem is that Rogan is also an influential leader for his fans, so unless you're claiming that Rogan's support for Bernie will compel Rogan to rethink his transphobia, it seems overly optimistic to think Bernie's position on this will filter through Rogan to Rogan's fans.
Alright that sentence is a mess--basically this argument can't be settled as determining how and why political views change is notoriously difficult to do empirically.
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link
can’t believe bernie got rogan cooties and now his campaign is 100% transphobic. disgusting
― uncrut gems (crüt), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:31 (four years ago) link
my own experience is that DMT makes a person very impressionable, so there's hiope for sure
not sure what watching MMA does to a brain though
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:31 (four years ago) link
x-post: Hey, you can disagree, but no need to be condescending, it's a legitimate worry.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:32 (four years ago) link
I'm not suggesting Rogan will rethink anything, I'm also not suggesting that 100% of Rogans audience are transphobic, or that a majority are transphobic, or that his audience is more transphobic than the voting public
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:33 (four years ago) link
― uncrut gems (crüt), Friday, January 24, 2020 8:31 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
damn it's almost like no one in this thread who's concerned is saying this
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:33 (four years ago) link
are there Joe Rogan listeners among e.g. those 22,000 WI voters?
if so, yes, this is a good thing
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:34 (four years ago) link
the ends justify the rogans
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
I immediately regretted posting that. sorry.
― uncrut gems (crüt), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:36 (four years ago) link
I genuinely don't think anyone in this thread believes "it's bad if the wrong voters vote for Bernie" so can we just let that go?
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:37 (four years ago) link
^an xp to Hadrian
― anvil, Friday, January 24, 2020 9:23 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i wanna go one day without tu quoque fallacies.
look im all for a big tent and having some of those people being in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. i just dont think its necessary to elevate the voices of the tent-pissers that target the other people in your tent in word and deed.
― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison), Friday, 24 January 2020 15:42 (four years ago) link
Can I just say to anvils point, that if someone listens to a podcast, where the host was yelling 'you're a fucking man' at a trans woman in one episode, my assumption will be that the listener is transphobic as well. Might be wrong. But I don't think it's an unfair assumption.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:44 (four years ago) link
Is that common knowledge among his casual fans, though?
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 15:49 (four years ago) link