END TO END BERNERS: The Official Bernie Sanders 2020 Crew thread

It's not 'controversial' as much as it seems completely wrong

Identifying with a particular group for reason x makes you more receptive to adjacent, initially less appealing reasons y and z.

i dont care if rogan likes bernie, i do care that bernie's camp promotes the endorsement as worthwhile

That's fair.

no president has ever been elected by refusing to lie down with dogs

we can only try to support the candidate least likely to get up with them, too

no dem nominee, for that matter

[Rogan] endorsed Ron Paul in the 2012 U.S. presidential campaign[76] and Gary Johnson in the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign.[77]

Johnson to Bernie in four years?

i dont care if rogan likes bernie, i do care that bernie's camp promotes the endorsement as worthwhile

― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison),

He went on the show so why wouldn't he? Is there an idea here that Warren didn't attempt the same strategy?

With newfound respect for a political leader comes greater openness to their *other* ideas as well, be it only up to a point. I'm surprised this is controversial.

Yeah, idg how this is wrong. What does it even mean for someone to be a leader otherwise?

i'm sorry this tangent is even happening, obv way to go bernie for getting that pretty massive audience, and no i don't believe that this endorsement means we're getting president joe rogan though that's surely not too far down the line. i just hate joe rogan and that he has an audience at all, nothing i can do about that. also liz otm

i dont care if rogan likes bernie, i do care that bernie's camp promotes the endorsement as worthwhile

― majority whip, majority nae nae (m bison), Friday, January 24, 2020 8:21 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk i tuned this out after the "hot girls like bernie" memes started happening the other week

And outside of Bernie, I just can't get with the idea that Rogans giant audience is somehow TooFarGone and irredeemable, or some homogenous mass that can't be engaged with. I don't see how shunning works better than engaging

The problem is that Rogan is also an influential leader for his fans, so unless you're claiming that Rogan's support for Bernie will compel Rogan to rethink his transphobia, it seems overly optimistic to think Bernie's position on this will filter through Rogan to Rogan's fans.

Alright that sentence is a mess--basically this argument can't be settled as determining how and why political views change is notoriously difficult to do empirically.

can’t believe bernie got rogan cooties and now his campaign is 100% transphobic. disgusting

my own experience is that DMT makes a person very impressionable, so there's hiope for sure

not sure what watching MMA does to a brain though

x-post: Hey, you can disagree, but no need to be condescending, it's a legitimate worry.

I'm not suggesting Rogan will rethink anything, I'm also not suggesting that 100% of Rogans audience are transphobic, or that a majority are transphobic, or that his audience is more transphobic than the voting public

can’t believe bernie got rogan cooties and now his campaign is 100% transphobic. disgusting

― uncrut gems (crüt), Friday, January 24, 2020 8:31 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

damn it's almost like no one in this thread who's concerned is saying this

are there Joe Rogan listeners among e.g. those 22,000 WI voters?

if so, yes, this is a good thing

the ends justify the rogans

I immediately regretted posting that. sorry.

I genuinely don't think anyone in this thread believes "it's bad if the wrong voters vote for Bernie" so can we just let that go?

^an xp to Hadrian

He went on the show so why wouldn't he? Is there an idea here that Warren didn't attempt the same strategy?

― anvil, Friday, January 24, 2020 9:23 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i wanna go one day without tu quoque fallacies.

look im all for a big tent and having some of those people being in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. i just dont think its necessary to elevate the voices of the tent-pissers that target the other people in your tent in word and deed.

Can I just say to anvils point, that if someone listens to a podcast, where the host was yelling 'you're a fucking man' at a trans woman in one episode, my assumption will be that the listener is transphobic as well. Might be wrong. But I don't think it's an unfair assumption.

Is that common knowledge among his casual fans, though?

I want more people to support Bernie; I don't want Rogan people supporting Bernie.

x-post: I don't think that's my responsibility to know, and, again, I don't find that unfair.

Can I just say to anvils point, that if someone listens to a podcast, where the host was yelling 'you're a fucking man' at a trans woman in one episode, my assumption will be that the listener is transphobic as well.

How about a listenere that was listening to a different podcast, one with Cornel West or Abby Martin or the guy that walked the length of the Yangtze. Is that listener transphobic too?

xxxp rob you're right I'm just hearing this and anticipating the handwringing to come when the barrel's gonna get scraped for much worse than this

this whole process is involves a lot of nose holding

lol then again Alfred does think it's "bad"

Anvil it's the same podcast.

Fwiw I primarily viewed Rogan with suspicion for inviting fuckfaces such as Shapiro and Peterson on his show but I was not aware of his openly transphobic comments until today. Aside from a few excerpts here and there the only episode I've ever watched in full was the Cornel West one.

Which one? I didn't hear a bunch of the Abby Martin one, it definitely didn't happen in the Cornel West one

have we quorum

I'm really glad I suckered myself into arguing about another thing no one will care about in 48 hours where we all agree about 90% of the issue

love too be told how much shit I have to eat by people who don't have to eat any of it

^^^ yep that’s the stuff

bless you

We keep returning to what Eliza and I find most oft-putting about Sanders supporters' activism, specifically how our worries adduce our poor commitment to radicalism or something.

Anvil do the work yourself. It's easily searchable. Nobody here owes you anything on this.

I want more people to support Bernie; I don't want Rogan people supporting Bernie.

I think this kind of mindset is unhelpful if you want Bernie to win (which, I do too). I don't listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, but I've got plenty of good friends who listen to Joe Rogan all the time (one generalisation I will make about people who listen to the Joe Rogan podcast is that they always talk about the Joe Rogan podcast), mostly because it gives them an insight into lots of different views and topics that they don't otherwise really get from the mainstream media around them. These are mostly not extremely online people; they're just normal, nice people. To paint "Rogan people", which seems to be 3.3 million+ subscribers, with a broad brush as alt-right, transphobes or whatever is just very obviously wrong. Some folks here are getting very close to the idea that the mere act of listening to someone's podcast endorses the worst views/moments of their worst fans or guests, which seems obviously insane to me.

okay but tbf you are very close to a "good people on both sides" argument, esp as it's been pointed out that the transphobic rants are coming from *rogan himself* in addition to (some of) his fans, and the inciting incident to this discussion is *rogan himself* endorsing bernie and bernie touting it. maybe it was inevitable we'd be having this conversation once he agreed to go on rogan in the first place (and once we argued about that, too).

Some folks here are getting very close to the idea that the mere act of listening to someone's podcast endorses the worst views/moments of their worst fans or guests

or their... hosts????

Anvil do the work yourself. It's easily searchable. Nobody here owes you anything on this.

― Frederik B,

I'll look later, but for now I will asssume you are correct and I (presumably along with pomenitul) am transphobic for watching the Joe Rogan podcast with Cornel West, as we were both in the audience that day.

the inciting incident to this discussion is *rogan himself* endorsing bernie and bernie touting it

did I miss something? I scanned Bernie's twitter and saw no mention of it.

“I think I'll probably vote for Bernie... He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from.” -Joe Rogan pic.twitter.com/fuQP0KwGGI

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) January 23, 2020

ahh

Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.

m bison, Doc C, Liz, Brad all otm

Let's just get the nonvoters activated and stop vote suppression instead.

this is the way forward, not begging for votes from hateful assholes