END TO END BERNERS: The Official Bernie Sanders 2020 Crew thread

Is that common knowledge among his casual fans, though?

I want more people to support Bernie; I don't want Rogan people supporting Bernie.

x-post: I don't think that's my responsibility to know, and, again, I don't find that unfair.

Can I just say to anvils point, that if someone listens to a podcast, where the host was yelling 'you're a fucking man' at a trans woman in one episode, my assumption will be that the listener is transphobic as well.

How about a listenere that was listening to a different podcast, one with Cornel West or Abby Martin or the guy that walked the length of the Yangtze. Is that listener transphobic too?

xxxp rob you're right I'm just hearing this and anticipating the handwringing to come when the barrel's gonna get scraped for much worse than this

this whole process is involves a lot of nose holding

lol then again Alfred does think it's "bad"

Anvil it's the same podcast.

Fwiw I primarily viewed Rogan with suspicion for inviting fuckfaces such as Shapiro and Peterson on his show but I was not aware of his openly transphobic comments until today. Aside from a few excerpts here and there the only episode I've ever watched in full was the Cornel West one.

Which one? I didn't hear a bunch of the Abby Martin one, it definitely didn't happen in the Cornel West one

have we quorum

I'm really glad I suckered myself into arguing about another thing no one will care about in 48 hours where we all agree about 90% of the issue

love too be told how much shit I have to eat by people who don't have to eat any of it

^^^ yep that’s the stuff

bless you

We keep returning to what Eliza and I find most oft-putting about Sanders supporters' activism, specifically how our worries adduce our poor commitment to radicalism or something.

Anvil do the work yourself. It's easily searchable. Nobody here owes you anything on this.

I want more people to support Bernie; I don't want Rogan people supporting Bernie.

I think this kind of mindset is unhelpful if you want Bernie to win (which, I do too). I don't listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, but I've got plenty of good friends who listen to Joe Rogan all the time (one generalisation I will make about people who listen to the Joe Rogan podcast is that they always talk about the Joe Rogan podcast), mostly because it gives them an insight into lots of different views and topics that they don't otherwise really get from the mainstream media around them. These are mostly not extremely online people; they're just normal, nice people. To paint "Rogan people", which seems to be 3.3 million+ subscribers, with a broad brush as alt-right, transphobes or whatever is just very obviously wrong. Some folks here are getting very close to the idea that the mere act of listening to someone's podcast endorses the worst views/moments of their worst fans or guests, which seems obviously insane to me.

okay but tbf you are very close to a "good people on both sides" argument, esp as it's been pointed out that the transphobic rants are coming from *rogan himself* in addition to (some of) his fans, and the inciting incident to this discussion is *rogan himself* endorsing bernie and bernie touting it. maybe it was inevitable we'd be having this conversation once he agreed to go on rogan in the first place (and once we argued about that, too).

Some folks here are getting very close to the idea that the mere act of listening to someone's podcast endorses the worst views/moments of their worst fans or guests

or their... hosts????

Anvil do the work yourself. It's easily searchable. Nobody here owes you anything on this.

― Frederik B,

I'll look later, but for now I will asssume you are correct and I (presumably along with pomenitul) am transphobic for watching the Joe Rogan podcast with Cornel West, as we were both in the audience that day.

the inciting incident to this discussion is *rogan himself* endorsing bernie and bernie touting it

did I miss something? I scanned Bernie's twitter and saw no mention of it.

“I think I'll probably vote for Bernie... He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from.” -Joe Rogan pic.twitter.com/fuQP0KwGGI

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) January 23, 2020

ahh

Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.

m bison, Doc C, Liz, Brad all otm

Let's just get the nonvoters activated and stop vote suppression instead.

this is the way forward, not begging for votes from hateful assholes

I don't really care to debate this, but I do wonder (1) is anyone here honestly going to not vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, on account of Rogan's support and (2) is anyone here who was otherwise sincerely considering voting for Bernie in a contested primary considering no longer doing so because of Rogan's support?

"Accepted support from someone who is problematic" as an eliminator is going to eliminate a lot of candidates. Bu my question is not rhetorical, I really want to know.

It bears repeating that plenty of nonvoters are hateful assholes.

xp

anvil, your attempts at reductio aren't even worth addressing.

man alive, I intend to vote for Sanders in the Ohio primary and, if he's the candidate, in the general. I also don't want an influx of people who want me not to exist into the Democratic Party. Not sure why this is such a hard concept.

Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

the issue here appears to be that actual non-binary people itt are being told their concerns are irrelevant

nobody is saying they don't want more blue votes afaict

The nature of Sanders fans is not among the two reasons he's not my top pick.

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

― triggercut, Friday, January 24, 2020

Do you want to listen to somoene advovcate transphobia?

I pretty much hate Joe Rogan and resent the fact that—as mentioned upthread—the media has ceded the territory he occupies now... but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl.

and maybe I’ve drunk the koolaid but I just can’t see Bernie somehow abandoning a commitment to trans issues when others in the Dem primary supposedly would not.

Absolutely mind-boggling how many people here perfectly understand the whole "Voting for Trump doesn't make you racist but it makes you OK with racism" argument but don't understand this.

but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl.

yeah, and I'm not OK with that either!

In that case Bernie Sanders and Cornel West have enabled Joe Rogan far more than I ever have, with my solitary 1 added to his viewing figures on a couple of occasions

Great, here's your cookie, please stfu

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

― triggercut, 24. januar 2020 17:21 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Every person who listens to Rogan, my assumption will be they are a transphobe. But I don't assume everyone who listens to Rogan is a transphobe. These are two different things and should not be confused.

and it doesn't say much for Warren who planned to enable Rogan plenty too

I don't really care to debate this, but I do wonder (1) is anyone here honestly going to not vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, on account of Rogan's support and (2) is anyone here who was otherwise sincerely considering voting for Bernie in a contested primary considering no longer doing so because of Rogan's support?

no and no, fucking come on

Also hilarious to see a cohort who positioned HRC as the literal fucking devil for the last five years suddenly pivot to "I am OK with the president of the We Stan Alex Jones Fan Club, this is fine."

i guess i should prepare for how horrible these discussions with fellow leftists will always be

and if Bernie is bad for touting the endorsement of a known dumbass (albeit one with a sadly huge audience), then some of the other candidates who sought out a Rogan appearance are also bad so shit I guess we’re fucked

i wanna go one day without tu quoque fallacies.

ok sorry my last post was needless snark but I would genuinely appreciate hearing how other candidates’ —including ones who dipped—policies on trans issues stack up against Sanders’.

Great! Go find out.

there are a lot of people who I speak to on a regular basis who have this embedded fear that, like money, cultural capital is a zero sum game and things they take for granted or see as essential to their identity are going to be negatively impacted by someone else getting a leg up. they don't articulate it this way, but the idea is that someone with a viewpoint they don't personally recognize getting a slice of attention somehow diminishes their own role in society

the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint and it might be as simple as finding a voice they relate to in order to flip their view, realizing that their in-group can include trans people as well. there's a large swath of people who "don't have anything against gay people" who thought gay marriage was wrong who now don't give a shit because they figured out their own lives were 0% changed by that cultural shift

I don't think you're going to get many strong advocates for the disadvantaged in the group that easily shifts from anti positions to ambivalent positions, but injecting them into a community with diverse voices is going to shift them toward that ambivalence quicker.

Rogan has a better record with LGBTQ issues than Joe Biden

as a queer person who supports sanders this thread is not really helping me feel like i have a place among the rest of his supporters or that my priorities and concerns wouldn't be ridiculed by them so i'm gonna stop checking this thread

It'd be great if everyone could be revolutionary, an advocate, or at the very least an ally, but I think believing in causes that help float all boats -- while maintaining a strong network of actual allies who are ensuring that some aren't left behind -- has a net positive effect

^ not sure how far back we’re assessing records, but if he’s better than Biden, well I got bad news about Clinton