END TO END BERNERS: The Official Bernie Sanders 2020 Crew thread

I think also a lot of low information people out there, views not solidified, jumbled up, these are some of the most reachable people out there

Hillary literally said some TERF shit like a month ago iirc

that's cool, i was gonna vote for hillary/joe biden but i guess i've changed my mind

y'all are being assholes

Great! Go find out.

Sanders and Warren also both oppose the use of conscience laws or religious objections in things like providing health care or other services to trans and nb people.

Which I think leads to real questions about persuasiveness, strong arguments, and reaching people - especially in a media landscape setup to achieve the opposite of that. Even assuming his audience does lean right, do we only want them to hear right wing nonsense? Or do we want them to hear alternatives? They're told leftists and progressives are terrible people, and then when they hear one at length the comments are full of "oh this isn't what I was told they were!"

This is like knocking on a million doors

thank you Eliza

Cool posts.

remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?

one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced

If "bounced" is a synonym for something that would get me an interview with the Secret Service, yes.

I should qualify when I said "socially conservative" I don't mean actively campaigning against social progress. While some people default to inherent hostility when they encounter experiences foreign to their own, at their most benign it's just this discomfort that's rooted in insecurity.

Some who are socially conservative by the harsher definition, when they hear someone who has experienced real adversity explain how they've been harmed, will attempt to argue or diminish their points. There are many who, when they actually hear someone make the same points in a venue that's familiar -- whether it's their home turf, or listening to a podcast they can relate to -- are open in a way they may not be for people they perceive as strangers. It's that ambivalent conservativeness that exists across the political spectrum.

fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account

remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?

one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced

fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account

Yeah, that was clearly a mistake.

I genuinely didn’t understand the Joe Rogan debate. He sucks but he’s not the first Bernie Sanders supporter that sucks. This isn’t new. I like Bernie Sanders despite despising his base.

Joe Rogan has a huge audience/platform; he is not equivalent to some random "supporter" or "the base"

also if you really want to show up at this point and keep the debate going, then using a vague pejorative like "sucks" strongly reinforces the perception that the Bernie supporters itt do not take trans rights or anti-trans rhetoric seriously

And he's a case where all of a sudden, people who have been saying since the last election that progressives (and Sanders's base particularly) shouldn't have to make deals with centrists and "the libs" are saying, "Look, you have to let these people into the tent." (Not saying anyone on this thread necessarily, but on Twitter for sure.) And when marginalized people who are hurt by this particular endorsement are objecting, they're being told to shut up and get in line. (Again, not here.)

Ah. I should clarify that I have no idea who he is other than the guy from Fear Factor that now has a podcast.

I guess I was trying to make the point that I don’t think Bernie Sanders is going to adopt Joe Rogan’s views on anything.

he's the guy from news radio who has standup specials called like "triggered!" and has the biggest podcast in the world

I guess I was trying to make the point that I don’t think Bernie Sanders is going to adopt Joe Rogan’s views on anything.

― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, January 24, 2020 10:44 AM (twenty-six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

you're a goddamn genius

Even as a fan of News Radio I think I’m going to skip “Triggered!” 😆

I do know that he’s popular. In fact, I’m pretty sure I knew he had a podcast because he’s always on the top of the podcast charts on iTunes. But so is Bill Simmons and Bill Simmons isn’t coming up in my life either. I guess I just don’t see this as comparable to a person that I saw compare this to David Duke and Trump. Nevertheless I’m not trans and have no relationship with trans activists so I’ll 100% defer on whether judging this is harmful.

you're a goddamn genius

― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, January 24, 2020 12:45 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I know and I appreciate that I’m not the most sophisticated person here, especially about politics, but isn’t this the crux of the debate?

it is not

I’m not trying to be antagonistic. I always find these threads helpful. Even when they are contentious. They have genuinely changed my world view over the past decade (or two).

ok tbc no one is genuinely worried that Rogan will influence Sanders' views

And he's a case where all of a sudden, people who have been saying since the last election that progressives (and Sanders's base particularly) shouldn't have to make deals with centrists and "the libs" are saying, "Look, you have to let these people into the tent.

These are different ideas, though. Is anyone arguing that you need to cede ground on LGBTQ issues to whatever percentage of Rogan's fanbase are irredeemable CHUDs?

Yeah, that was clearly a mistake

I mean, it's not good but it's not a mistake - it will have been a prerequisite for the interview in the first place - Joe Rogan likes new fans too!

If the fact that someone reprehensible announces their support for a candidate disqualifies that candidate from the support of progressives, then the neo-Nazis would be politically smart to draw up a list of the candidates they hate most and assign various of their hateful assholes to go on social media and loudly support those candidates, thereby losing each of them tons of votes among conscientious progressives.

I listened for a while when I was driving 5 hours a day, in the period when it was mostly MMA guys and health and wellness grifters. Rogan is seemingly one of the dumbest, most credulous people on Earth, he will believe anything the person in front of him says with authority - but he's not actively evil. He's precisely the kind of person you can swing by breaking him out of his bro bubble where people repeat the Ben Shapiro attack helicopter jokes.

There's a parallel to Bill Maher, who thinks he's a genius and is far more mean-spirited whereas Rogan seems to accept that he's a dumbass.

These are different ideas, though. Is anyone arguing that you need to cede ground on LGBTQ issues to whatever percentage of Rogan's fanbase are irredeemable CHUDs?

It is not inconceivable that, given loud enough voices, an M4A bill would be constructed that would not cover gender-affirming surgeries.

Who's suggesting that's an acceptable compromise to get the Rogan Vote and is there any indication a Sanders Presidency would follow that path?

If anyone is wondering if I'm being an idiot, I am being an idiot - I'd thought that the Bernie interview was more recent and that it was the cause of this.

the "endorsement" seems to have been made to Bari Weiss's face, which is perhaps the only good thing about it

the "endorsement" seems to have been made to Bari Weiss's face, which is perhaps the only good thing about it

― symsymsym, Friday, January 24, 2020 10:37 AM (thirty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh that's hilarious

rogan sucks ass and bernie's camp emphasizing the endorsement is lame. i am a little bummed about it.

^^ best take yet imo

i really don't know this Rogan guy, but Maher seems approximately as vile and I believe he supported Sanders in the '16 primaries

Rogan is seemingly one of the dumbest, most credulous people on Earth, he will believe anything the person in front of him says with authority

100%. Rogan is as dumb as a rock, pervesely this can make him a good interviewer. Though on occasion some right wing balloon (Dave Rubin, Candace Owens) is exposed for being too dumb eveb for Rogan. He's kind of inadvertently Socratic

I think AOC is supposed to be going on later this year also fwiw

Wonder if he would have ContraPoints on

I'm pretty sure he would (assuming her metrics/reach are sufficient), it's more about whether she would want to put up with any more controversy

She has run into her own troubles of late true.

xxxxxp I apologize for minimizing anyone's concerns about this, and although I've never listened to an episode of Joe Rogan* I absolutely believe you that he is transphobic (I also haven't been able to click through the links posted above at work) and absolutely understand why his presence would make you uncomfortable.

*I did watch one Rogan clip on youtube once -- it was Jordan Peterson talking very earnestly about how some cider caused him a bizarre months-long illness and it was hilarious.

fwiw, I don't love the fact that some of his surrogates have ties to Farrakhan, who is genuinely a virulent and hateful open antisemite. I'm less bothered by it because obviously Bernie is not antisemitic, and I hope he's not transphobic either.

I struggle with criticisms of "his supporters" or "his base" because that's such a nebulous concept. Unless you're literally talking about people on his campaign, it's just whatever random individuals on the internet profess support for him for any reason whatsoever, as well as occasional trolls, bots, etc.

I think we can all agree that fear ... is definitely not a factor for Bernie

Presidential politics is weird and messy and people support candidates for all kinds of reasons. Bernie has some "crossover" support. I don't think that reflects on him so much as just on the way a lot of less politically involved people choose their candidates.

Why does Sanders get this benefit of the doubt when literally no other candidate does?