END TO END BERNERS: The Official Bernie Sanders 2020 Crew thread

just the twitter video I think, that was linked upthread. but the bernie campaign did make a video out of rogan saying he'd vote for him. xp

If the majority of queer posters say they're offended, it's best to step away.

That is a good general rule. How well it applies here is not entirely obvious to me, if only because I am not entirely up to speed on who is or is not queer, or exactly where the locus of their offense is directed, but I'll observe it henceforward. Consider me backed away.

THREAD... Joe Rogan. I think it’s fine to accept the endorsement even as I disagree w highlighting him in an ad. Rogan has built much of his career by appealing to racism, sexism, trans and homo phobias among others. This contradicts Sanders appeals for solidarity rooted in the

— Keeanga-Yamahtta T. (@KeeangaYamahtta) January 25, 2020

SMH at yesterday's flood of Not All Joe Rogan Listeners after Brad, Eliza et al shared legit disgust at Bernie touting the endorsement. I hope the campaign makes some effort to counter Rogan's doofish hatefulness in the coming days. Wouldn't feel as gross to me if they had just @ed Rogan with "glad to have you on board in our fight for trans, gay and women's rights! Equality for all!!" but I'm cishet male and my identity is never under attack by choads of his ilk and maybe there's no ok way to acknowledge the endorsement?

Interestingly Nina Turner retweeted Bernie's original Rogan video/tweet, but also both negative (including the tweet above) and positive comments about it

to echo something an ex-ilxor says, i'm offended all the time. so fucking what?

cool, glad you're on our side

i would vote for elizabeth warren but she won’t stop DMing me and asking for feet pics. i’ve expressed my boundaries multiple times and she has continued to message me. i’m not trying to kinkshame anyone but i don’t think it’s appropriate to ask a trans woman for “trap feet.”

— anemone (@femalehysteria) January 13, 2020

lol

Via that tweet:

In desperation, even veteran socialists in the Trump era have become ideologically disoriented and susceptible to the temptations of political opportunism. Most serious among the errors of the socialist movement has been the subtle degradation of the prospects of revolution in North America.

True. I had hardly noticed how the prospects of revolution in North America had degraded since the last time I looked.

rogan gets a pass but this? come on dude pic.twitter.com/hbpvgWN5j4

— Garbage Ape 🗑 🦧 (@GarbageApe) January 26, 2020

I'm very close (closer than I might like to be) in my own gut reaction to the "It's an endorsement of my guy from an influential figure, let Bernie have this win, c'mon!" people, but have been trying not to get in anyone's face about it or pretend I have any semblance of a clue about what matters or doesn't matter anymore in the grand scheme of U.S. elections.

With that said... This comment, which passed unremarked upthread, seems symptomatic:

Rogan is seemingly one of the dumbest, most credulous people on Earth, he will believe anything the person in front of him says with authority

To say, then: Don't take that guy too seriously, he doesn't mean it — He never means it — He has no deeply held convictions or intellectual positions... Does this not authorize and naturalize anti-trans prejudice, as a kind of factory default setting, as something inaccessible to reasoned discourse, so deep is the level at which it operates in the body (or, amounting to the same thing, the unconscious mind) of even the most "mushy brained" "meathead" among us?

ps Election cycles always bring out the worst in people (which is probably why the American media decided we should have a 30 month long one every 4 years, lol) and I don't think y'all are bad people. But it's disheartening to hear anyone who considers themself an ally to marginalized people and an outspoken political progressive make excuses for any form of prejudice which basically amount to: Hey, what are you gonna do, that's just Joe being Joe!

Not to get all Chomsky on 9/13 here but explaining something is not the same as excusing it.

I didn’t say “don’t take him seriously,” I said Rogan is an ignorant cretin. (And not to anything specifically discussed by another poster.) Bigots aren’t born, they’re created - in Rogan’s case created by his age and position (let’s remember how even most avowed white liberals his age felt about LGBTQ issues 20-30 years ago...) but by his credulousness and stupidity.

He hasn’t had a trans person sit across from him and tell him their story - he’s had Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro and brain-damaged fighters and he will eat up and believe every word they say, because he lacks the capacity to think critically about anything.

Rogan is, quite obviously, not alone in this.

It’s also fairly well-established that breaking down reflexive bigotry is possible, and a key way to do that is with confronting the bigot with the reality and humanity of ‘the other’ in person rather than just simple ostracization.

He hasn’t had a trans person sit across from him and tell him their story

If/when ContraPoints goes on, that should be interesting (and I hope she does). Rogan has been having increasingly left wing guests on so I don't think its particularly unlikely, and thats invaluable - Particularly because he stands at the doorway to the alt-right pipeline (a subject for another thread but actually maybe not - questions about who we want to reach and how we want to reach them. who is too far gone and who isn't)

as to the malleability theres almost no chance he would have endorsed Bernie without Cornel West pushing him in that direction

so many of my canadian friends talk about the democratic primary this way, mostly as bernie supporters but one who loves mayor pete and one who loves kamala, and it is crazy imo because we do not get a vote

I think I'm still hung over from when I actually lived in the US. I'm working on moving past it.

one thing that is pretty amazing on my Facebook is dudes that are always saying "the Bernie bro myth is created by the establishment to smear his campaign" while at the same time constantly talking over everyone and shitposting and basically acting exactly like the stereotype in every way

the myth I think is that these people predominate among his supportes, when in fact their numbers are magnified by being very online

it's really easy to mistake comment sections for the real world, and tempting, too—because there it all neatly laid out

re: the "Trump wants Bernie" narrative

Trump on secret recording:

"If Bernie would have been VP it would have been tougher...I got 20% of Bernie vote because of trade. He's a big trade guy...

Had she picked Bernie Sanders it would have been tougher. He is the only one I didn't want her to pick."#BernieBeatsTrump https://t.co/n27miR67kT pic.twitter.com/pJUpwGcHxm

— 🔥A NobodyforBernie2020🔥VoteForBernie🔥 (@BernForBernie20) January 25, 2020

(apologies for the hilariously partisan acct)

He leaked it on purpose. #5192342dChess

dSuggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII) at 10:32 26 Jan 20

the myth I think is that these people predominate among his supportes, when in fact their numbers are magnified by being very online


I know, the humor is in how the dudes on my feed who are constantly pointing this out are they themselves the ones who embody the stereotype

there should be tax credits for just shutting the fuck up

everything that emerges from trump's mouth may fairly be called "a leak"

perfect leaks

His toilet seat tells a different story

Discussing one of his favorite topics, the 2016 election, Mr. Trump said he might have had a much more difficult time defeating Hillary Clinton if she had picked Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont to be her running mate instead of Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia.

“If Bernie were Hillary’s vice president, it would have been tougher,” Mr. Trump said, “because all those people that hated her so much who voted for me.”

Mr. Trump added, “You know I got 20 percent of Bernie vote. People don’t realize that, because of trade, because he’s a big trade guy, you know he basically says we’re getting screwed on trade, and he’s right, and I’m worse than he is, and we can do something about it, I don’t know if he could have.”

“Had she picked Bernie Sanders, it would have been tougher,” Mr. Trump said. “He was the only one I didn’t want her to pick.”

bernie dudes communicate like they part of a MLM.

http://massalijn.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/mlmbasiccourse.png

xp lol

bah sorry i'm supposed to be taking a break from posting on these threads. my bad. bbl

it's really easy to mistake comment sections for the real world, and tempting, too—because there it all neatly laid out

It is my experience as a minority in this country that this take is 100% bullshit and comment section trolls are way more common in the general population than people who you didn’t want to drown in a bathtub

100X otm

Gotta love a mainstream press that tried to convince us that ugly nazi Richard Spencer was a “Dapper Ethnoenthusiast” or whatever and call Bernie an antisemite and then draw him like this. pic.twitter.com/hDzbpxjB9g

— Bernie good, Trump bad 🌹 (@KenzoShibata) January 27, 2020

It is my experience as a minority in this country that this take is 100% bullshit and comment section trolls are way more common in the general population than people who you didn’t want to drown in a bathtub

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:37 PM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well I don't know what barometer you're using or how it would be any more accurate than mine. The vast majority of people I interact with and circulate among—most of whom I think are pretty well informed and not without opinions—aren't bursting blood vessels arguing with avatars on FB about the primaries.

Feeling like you want to drown most people (!) in a bathtub would be a bummer though

WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH DJP ABOUT HIS ACTUAL LIVED EXPERIENCE JESUS CHRIST

what?

He was arguing with me about *my* lived experience. In fact he said it's "100% bullshit" which seems a little bit harsh and unnecessarily provocative

I said I don't think internet commenters reflect the general population and got my chewed off

^ head!

Hadrian, I suggest you read and think about posts and who wrote them before responding.

that may be good advice, but seems awfully condescending at the same time

xp You know what? That's bullshit.

I wrote that I don't believe the % of oboxious Bernie fans online reflects his support IRL—that in general people are more obnoxious, impatient, and quick to anger online (which by the way...)

???

The policing in here the past coupe weeks is off the fucking charts

I find that @KenzoShibata tweet kind of annoying because it generalizes "the mainstream press" as a single unified thing. Spencer was called a "dapper white nationalist" by Mother Jones. Sanders was tied to antisemitism by a handful of conservation publications, like The National Review and The Federalist. The caricature of Sanders appeared in The Economist. These are all different publications with different political attitudes and goals.

I suppose it's not the first time the POC and queers on this thread have been implicitly accused of misunderstanding the good intentions of the straight male white posters.

The policing in here the past coupe weeks is off the fucking charts

― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII),

Then maybe you should examine your intentions before you post. I write this as someone who's often admired your posts.

The point of writing in public IS to "police" yourself before going public.

Well I don't know what barometer you're using or how it would be any more accurate than mine.

are you a minority? if not then STFU, this is seriously offensive and you deserve all the pushback seen here so far

xp Alfred. Enough. There's nothing I wrote that remotely mertis any policing—mine or your or anyone else's.

My intentions are solld, I have a good handle on them and know where my heart is.

You DO realize, no offense, that Southern racists used this line too, right? I don't know your heart. I know what you've posted.