Chicago: Where have all the serial killers gone?

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I would just like to point out that I'm NOT a copy editor and they don't pay me enough to be one, and a few weeks ago I found a mistake in something that CAME from our copy editing department and was supposed to be checked & double-checked and approved. It's fixed now, but not before I trustingly put the typo-ed version in half a dozen books. :(((((

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

My last post was mostly just an attempt at an example that used both quotes and parentheses.

Correctly on either side of the Atlantic, I might add!

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Re "UCP style": I think the sorts of rules we're talking about are fairly standard and aren't usually a matter of house style. At least within the United States, that is.

Then again, I've never seen UCP style, so for all I know, it could capitalize random nouns like in German.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, you're right, far too standard for something like that.

For what it's worth, the copy of the manual I have at my desk, which I believe is two iterations out of date, is 801 pages not counting appendicies.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the weirdest style quirks in the product I'm working on is capitalizing the word "capitol" when it refers to a state capitol building. Cf: "The Nebraska state Capitol was built in 1868."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

You're right. That sentence looks like it was written by James Frey.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

In order to understand that comment, Kenan, would I have to actually read his book?

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

song that's been stuck in my head all afternoon "who loves you" by the pooh sticks. great song, haven't heard it in AGES.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:23 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost No. You need only understand that Frey has a Irritating Habit of Capitalizing random Words throughout his Sentences.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:25 (seventeen years ago) link

It is because it's supposed to be a proper noun, John?

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link

that IS a great song!

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh. Is it in that sort of ironic emphasis way where you're, like, "I'm going outside to Take the Air"? Or is he just...delusional/German/wrong?

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Pretentious, I think. But that's all behind us now. No one even reads his blog anymore.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

It is because it's supposed to be a proper noun, John?

I think this is the idea. Because if it's followed by the word "building," then it's supposed to be lowercase. But I'd find it a lot easier to swallow if the whole phrase was capitalized, like "the Nebraska State Capitol" (cf. "the White House").

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

The building is more important than the state, I guess.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Yo, fuck Nebraska.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Fuck yo' Capitol. Buy a new one, you rich mother fucker.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I just want to say, as a former editor and a slavish devotee of the Chicago Manual of Style, I am fully on Team John (and Dan, I think, although I skimmed much of the thread) about the quotes thing. Fully.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, most of what I had to say is completely skimmable in retrospect. What else is new?

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

You mean the periods inside of the quotes? Yeah, I mean, I know it's correct (in this country). But it seems less logical.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I take a strict robot line: You can only go inside the quotes if you're part of what's being quoted. I always heard that the reason periods and commas were put inside the quotes is that they were small bits of type and thus would break if not protected by the larger quotation mark bits. This seems like nonsense but even if it's true it's no longer required. What goes inside the quotes is that which is being quoted!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 22:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I have been trying to post forever that I did not mean to suggest that your posts are in any way skimmable, Mr. Dan.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Chris is right about the inside-the-quotes rule being invented by printers. Lots of punctuation was invented by printers. Most of it, I'd guess.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Question:

John and I are lying in bed. Jenny is sitting across the room, crocheting. John asks me, "Am I beautiful?" I sodomize his face.

Later I go to Jenny and want to know if John asked the question with the words Am, I and beautiful.

Is this the following correct?
Hey Jenny, did he ask "Am I beautiful?"

Also, would you say Peter, Paul and Mary or Peter, Paul, and Mary? I vascillate between the two. I have no preference, but usually include the 2nd comma just to be consistent with myself.

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that the period outside the quotes is aesthetically pretty unappealing. The quotes are a nice bookend. In fact, probably the symbol " should replace . as the symbol that marks the end of a sentence"

Or perhaps| I think that indicates a finality that a period does not|

How's about those crazy French with their

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:07 (seventeen years ago) link

shit. this isn't going to comoe out right, but

how about those french and their >

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Comma before the "and" is essential.

I have been trying to post forever that I did not mean to suggest that your posts are in any way skimmable, Mr. Dan.

I know, I was just being self-deprecating. It's my way.

We are going to see Idiocracy tonight at 9:30 at the City North 14 at Western/Schubert if anyone is interested.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

this WILL work.

those french and their < < quotation marks > >

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I have no preference, but usually include the 2nd comma just to be consistent with myself.

There are entire threads on ILX about serial commas. I vastly prefer them.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link

«These quotation marks?»

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Serial commas are like gods. Except REAL.

What is this about thirsting on Thursdays?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:41 (seventeen years ago) link

&mdash Dashes are where it's at, James Joyce said. Inverted commas? More like perverted commas.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I use dashes too much; I believe it may be because I fear looking pretentious using semicolons.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Show me where Joyce said that?

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, I don't think there's supposed to be a space after the em dash.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:58 (seventeen years ago) link

You're right, but I didn't know how HTML would parse that. I'd never used an em dash in HTML before.

Jesse: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22perverted+commas%22+joyce&btnG=Google+Search

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link

You can run —s or any other HTML characters together as much as you want: ————Now I am Laurence Sterne.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Also do you have any time over the next few days for drinky drinks? Or dinner, or whatever?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Moi? Maybe. Remind me how long you're here. Are you here now?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link

If you are here on Friday night, I am rounding up people to go to a Polish buffet called Red Apple, and there will probably be drinks beforehand at a nearby Polish bar.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:44 (seventeen years ago) link

&emdash;Yes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Oops. I mean:

—Yes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:45 (seventeen years ago) link

You as well as anyone else who wants to get together. I am here now. I will be here until, oh, I don't know yet. Maybe as long as Sunday, maybe not that long. Depends on what is happening really.

xpost Oh that will do just fine, then. Does the Polish buffet have veggie options?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:45 (seventeen years ago) link

It does. There are several salads, as well as pierogies, potato pancakes, blintz, etc.

I've never been there before, but it seems like it could be an adventure. I'm choosing the restaurant as part of my duty for Restaurant Club (click for a hilarious picture of me in full beard), which means there could be random people I went to college with in attendance, but it's also a little out of the way and unconventional enough that I suspect most people won't bother.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:47 (seventeen years ago) link

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————vv

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link

que? how do i do that?

&mdash

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:26 (seventeen years ago) link

oh. like that. andemdash.

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I HEARD a fly buzz when I died;
The stillness round my form
Was like the stillness in the air
Between the heaves of storm.

The eyes beside had wrung them dry,
And breaths were gathering sure
For that last onset, when the king
Be witnessed in his power.

I willed my keepsakes, signed away
What portion of me I
Could make assignable,—and then
There interposed a fly,

With blue, uncertain, stumbling buzz,
Between the light and me;
And then the windows failed, and then
I could not see to see.

― The Pig on the Stairs (hanging in a groovy purple shirt) (unclejessjess), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I love full beard John. I have also always wanted to go to the Red Apple and that is no lie. Well always as in ever since I heard about it. I may be estudiaring, however, although I would sure like to see Chris. He's tall.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I love full beard John.

Oh, he was never bad, but why hide that face? Nevermind, it's out of our hands anyway now. His girlfriend gets to decide if he has a beard or not.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link

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