Rolling 2018 Thread on Race

xp

Idk what you mean, gyac? It is not an imaginative exercise for me. Philippe Rushton was doing that in the 80s.

however, the possibility of that kind of thing happening does not imply that educating the public about the scientifically rong aspects of racism is a bad idea. but attempting to "educate" anyone is perilous when there is an active disinformation campaign going on, because that is also their stated angle: "we're trying to educate people!"

xp to self and pomenitul

Yes, Karl Malone – I agree. In the Western world of 2020, basically anybody who believes (or purports to believe) in the tenets of scientific racism, or a strictly biological basis for race (intelligence, r/K, etc.,) is either profoundly ignorant, manipulative, or just masking antique bigotries in pseudo-acceptable terms. A well-built argument isn't going to change anybody's mind, because the initial argument's being made in bad faith resting on garbage science.

But if you allow that there is such a thing as garbage science then surely that means it's demonstrable? Why shouldn't it be demonstrated then? In schools, for example.

They're being given jobs in the British goverment, I call that pretty mainstream.

in my mind, social justice / political advocacy is a lot about choosing one's battles wisely. I remember back in grad school (20+ years ago), taking a required media ethics course that partly focused on "agenda-setting" -- which, at the time, seemed kinda "duh whatever" -- but is actually super relevant and important. Like, why focus on this? Why give the racists a platform on this issue? Idk, as an American, in terms of combating racism, scientific "proof" of biological intelligence is low on the list of what "we" should be spending time debating.

I suspect there are some national differences at play here:

https://time.com/5642773/american-students-taught-race/

xps

xxp the PM is a pretty mainstream role tbf

also Karl otm

For anybody interested, I highly recommend Angela Saini's book 'Superior' on this very issue.

that’s where these ideas always end up leading. Why else would there be so much effort at repeatedly reviving and funding them time and time again?

They are not leading there. They have arrived there and are teaching at Harvard, publishing in the NYT, and advising the British PM. How do you think we should respond?

I’ve already said upthread and you seem determined that that’s not a good enough answer.

Admittedly, I'm somewhat heated and posting quickly but, no, it wasn't obvious to me. The main thing I was getting from your posts was that rational scientific arguments and education won't work and play into the hands of racists. Did you mean that your favoured response is to ignore these people, avoid giving platforms where we can, and continuing to stress the moral wrong of racism?

Yes, that’s why I said those things across several posts.