How will you vote in the Labour Leadership election?

Burgon psyching out Starmer by constantly blasting out metal in the LOTO offices is the only way I can see that happening. And also, it’s a bad look if the membership returns two men.

I don't think there is a realistic chance of Burgon winning, but if he is as socialist as he claims then maybe he might not be happy when Starmer starts going soft on Universal Credit about 3.6 seconds into his tenure!

Burgon's not going to win anyway but I'm not especially convinced by the logic of voting for someone you privately think isn't really competent because they're ideologically aligned, people like that can set the cause back more than advance it. I'm largely unfussed by the results of this contest (partly because it's so obvious who's going to win both positions), but it probably will make me quite angry if Burgon gets more votes than Dawn Butler.

Also if he does get the position under Starmer he'll shut up and do what he's told. Literally impossible for anyone to be a bigger pain in the arse than Watson was.

(Obviously I'm not suggesting voting for someone you actively disagree with, before anyone jumps on that)

I’ve published my list of donors over £1500 https://t.co/zbfn3fWtZm

— Rebecca Long-Bailey (@RLong_Bailey) February 26, 2020

see this fuckers in the pocket of big energy/water companies and shadowy former labour donors who fucked off when Corbyn became leader, this is what transparency looks like.

A Starmer-Burgon result from them being the only two men in it would be pretty fucking offensive tbh

not seen anyone make much of a case for butler beyond general palatability

Worked better with Corbyn leadership despite not being that left
Always willing to speak up against bullshit
Has actual ministerial experience

You’d really have to make the case for Burgon beyond “CLPD candidate” tbh

xps Matt otm!

Burgon as the most senior/prominent leftie in the party would be an absolute bonanza for anyone who wanted to undermine the left. Every time he made a terrible TV appearance they'd be able to point and go 'see?'

I definitely laughed at the 2nd reason though

Ballots begin to drop today.

Vote Dawn Butler number 1 if you want someone who will #PrepareforPower from day one, energise our Labour movement and unite our Party. #Dawn4Deputy pic.twitter.com/vCf9ICqo2G

— (((Dawn Butler))) (@DawnButlerBrent) February 24, 2020

"A Starmer-Burgon result from them being the only two men in it would be pretty fucking offensive tbh"

I don't even want one of the men to win, but I'd take the fool Burgon if it was part of some Faustian pact to have Starmer dumped into the ash heap of Labour Party history.

You’d take Nandy over Starmer?

No, rightly or wrongly I don't even factor her into the equation and just assume she's a wooden spoon shoe in!

but don't think for a minute Starmer wouldn't take a similar road to her, because as you know he follows the path of least resistance - like melt-water.

There's a real mountain to slither down right now.

think I'm going burgon, butler, rayner

burgon, butler, rayner, spy

competence is not some desirable abstract attribute (you cld say all the worst ppl are competent) but a subjective, normative assessment of something situational and it gets raised as an issue in a similar way to realism & being 'out of touch', so I'm always a little wary of it.

afaict butler's biggest pluses are having significant non-union job experience, which I value more than ministerial exp, being a strong liberal*, and being a clear thinker and good communicator (inc some humour even). she strikes me as being measured rather than a watson/phillips type of renegade opinion-haver. rayner is the high energy candidate and has a similar voting record, isn't from london, is an effective part of the party/union machine (a sort of competence which is probably overall slightly more bad than good), and I have a faint suspicion abt the clarity of her liberal convictions, mb unfairly. burgon is the one I agree with most, and open selection is a fundamental q of power and democracy and so imo central. he's the poorest communicator of the three and as w/ rayner he's more of a work in progress shall we say, and the most ripe for patronisation (tho the oxbridge minister for fabulosity arguably deserves it more)

*hi B-)

good breakdown u have my first preference

I guess Rayner is the #towns candidate too, tho Leeds is an overgrown town let's be honest

I will concede she has a slightly risqué rhetorical style that at times codes as dogwhistling. "Forget about [nice, wholesome but slightly abstract thing], how about [other nice, wholesome and fairly concrete thing]!" It's a little bit of a verbal triangulation - it doesn't make me doubt her principles (voting record, always the voting record) but it does render her liable to have ten-second clips of her disseminated among left twitter with accompanying #yikes, #cancelled and so on.

I won't deny I'm naturally drawn to the hi-nrg candidate in any otherwise fairly even circumstances tho, ty ogmor for crystallising it

Could still vote Butler. Will check both voting records and then watch a few videos etc

what do you think the odds are of a shock result here, ogmor? At the moment it seems to me fucking Starmer/Rayner is as short odds as doubling a Schumacher podium finish with Celtic versus some Highland league shitkickers back in the day kind of odds on.

no idea but does seem unlikely, the best hope RLB has is that starmer will lose more votes to nandy than she will, mb esp if starmer seems nailed on?

been quite a bit of debate among labour pals on the q "is rayner daft?". hard to gauge but I can say: rayner's high school < my high school < nandy's high school < owen jones' high school

Butler seems like she would be a good counter-balance to RLB but not to Starmer. I feel like Rayner might be a token leftish ventriloquist's dummy to Starmer's reluctant, electable shift rightwards.

the best hope RLB has is that starmer will lose more votes to nandy than she will, mb esp if starmer seems nailed on?

Only if the new Nandy voters don't bother with second prefs surely?

Both Starmer and Rayner broadly speaking play for the team they're asked to when leaves them both as gigantic unknown quantities in terms of the actual programme that they'd pursue as leader and deputy. If I had to guess I'd still say soft leftish on economic issues, definitely anti-austerity but with a big headline-grabbing rightward shift on law and order.

And #towns obviously.

Hold on here, imago and xyzzz are members of the same political party?

They are in fact, brothers in the Labour Family?

Does it not look like a family dispute to you?

I can't possibly imagine any bitter rivalries and recriminations between members of the same political party.

I'm not sure I explained myself very well in my last post - any voters shifting from Starmer to Nandy are likely to stick Starmer down as second preference anyway. I'm assuming Nandy finishes in third whatever happens but I've really lost any sense of how popular she is with the voter base. My general sense though is that RLB has a baseline below which she pretty much can't fall.

What would a Labour pivot on law and order look like? They were already quite far down that road with 'get more bobbies on the beat', etc, under Abbott.

None of which convinced when you had the shadow chancellor openly supporting Lush against dodgy cops. My guess is...say goodbye to civil liberties!

why does it always somehow manage to come back to shit 90's indie bands on ILX?

you can take the kids out of the Belle and Sebastian fansite

yeah, I imagine nearly all nandy voters will second pref starmer but just imagine if he went out in the first round. lots of nandy fans round my way. it's a funny one for the next leader bc despite the alleged need to change and listen, all the polling suggests brexit and immigration are now fast fading as concerns and instead the focus is on environment, poverty&inequality, and housing. as SV says the corbyn leadership wasn't even v lib on crime or interested in constitutional reform, so there's v little obvious stuff to use as a way to signal a break with corbynism beyond style and presentation

The good NS has some thoughts on it here
https://newsocialist.org.uk/media/thumbnails/I_AM_ONCE_AGAIN_ASKING_small_wx8Y4MQ.jpg

Aside from the early release of people arrested under terrorism offences, crime wasn't really much of an electoral issue last year. There was the usual "Sadiq Khan has given a knife to every Londoner" dogwhistling but that'll be a bigger issue this year.

"More bobbies on the beat" is pretty mild stuff compared to what Labour came out with in government and was at least in part a way of making a point about austerity in any case.

just imagine if he went out in the first round

Big El-Hadji Diouf against France energy.

In many ways I'd probably prefer Nandy to Starmer. I'm not quite frothing at calz level 😅 but I'm developing serious animosity to the smarmy establishment cop cunt.

I think my instincts are good on Starmer and a couple of years down the line when Patel has had me dragooned into doing social care work and I luv Tories because they have made financially active again. Well by then you'll have a thread dedicated to telling Starmer to fuck off, or suggesting your favoured ways of seeing him executed. i guarantee you this. lying to scousers is just the tip of the meltberg with this cunt!

Nah I personally can’t stick Nandy. Blatantly insincere and lying about stuff that’s easily disprovable, far too right wing, happy to throw Diane Abbott under the bus and pander to legitimate concerns and let’s never forget this ton of shite

Labour’s @wesstreeting and @lisanandy tell @johnmcdonnellMP that he is not telling the truth on how previous cases of antisemitism were dealt with within the Labour Party.

Full interview 11.10pm @ITV #Peston pic.twitter.com/kZHFHW49L9

— Peston (@itvpeston) February 27, 2019

I was with John when this decision was taken - he's telling the truth. I like Wes & Lisa, so nothing personal at all, they just don't have all the details on this specific case. It happened in John's office, straight after our STT meeting. JC made the ultimate call, acted swiftly https://t.co/5jYd5KGCFS

— James Mills (@JamesMills1984) February 27, 2019

Yeah OK she's evil but so's the cop

Idk I do tend to prefer candidates who aren’t constantly moaning to the media and undermining the party

The thing that irritates me about Nandy is the number of chattering classes idiots who will immediately sit up and wag their tails because she's telling the party hard truths etc, but its all platitudes really. I'm not convinced she has any real solutions and her lines on immigration are incoherent and contradictory.

she was going really random in the last week - all over the fucking shop, but I think pretty much is her m.o.

God help the Labour Party tbh. Democratic reform is essential but I can't help but think it's the nature of political parties to be bureaucratic, hierarchical, alienating and a magnet for career cunts.

Labour leadership voting intention:

Keir Starmer: 53%
Rebecca Long Bailey: 31%
Lisa Nandy: 16%

via @YouGov, 20 - 25 Feb
Includes members, affiliates and registered supporters

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) February 26, 2020

and the members aren't much fucking cop either:(

Ah well, back to drunky anarchist nihilism

The working class fucking hates itself

fuck parliamentary democracy and fuck the Labour Party is how I'm feeling tbh.

Hold on here, imago and xyzzz are members of the same political party?

― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Wednesday, 26 February 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Didn't you realise it when imago was needing to be convinced (fresh from using his tactical voting app ofc) about RLB?

Plenty of that to go around now.