any version of Earthsea where Ged isn't dark-skinned is p fucked up tbh
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 20:42 (four years ago) link
hard agree. haven't seen any adaptations - if Ged is light-skinned it really takes some of the punch out of the white blond people being the scary primitive Other.
― lukas, Tuesday, 3 March 2020 20:47 (four years ago) link
I don't feel like I ever got the hang of Princess Mononoke I have to say.
Maybe having been introduced to Miyazaki via the one-two punch of Spirited/Howls left me with expectations of all his films being bonkers maximalist masterpieces, so coming to films like Mononoke and Totoro later on left me slightly underwhelmed as they're a lot more understated.
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 20:51 (four years ago) link
a good thing abt tales of earthsea is it made me reread the first three bookswhy not tehanu? a) it is used in the film; ii) it's the best one.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
weird i would consider princess mononoke way more of a bonkers maximalist masterpiece than spirited away
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 21:56 (four years ago) link
spirited away takes place in a bonkers otherwordly place but has a very understated time in it imo
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
otm, whereas Mononoke has like six factions, heads getting lopped off all sorts of people, no definite villains except maybe the local lord besieging Irontown, and the dang forest spirit, the weirdest guy of all
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 22:02 (four years ago) link
spirited away's big spectacle sequences feel bigger & more overwhelming to me than mononoke's
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 3 March 2020 22:06 (four years ago) link
maybe that's because the baseline is lower though!
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 3 March 2020 22:07 (four years ago) link
why not tehanu? a) it is used in the film; ii) it's the best one
bcz no copy in the house
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 March 2020 22:48 (four years ago) link
get one forthwith, and the next two, and join me in the earthsea thread to discuss the greatest hegelian thesis/antithesis/synthesis in literature.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Wednesday, 4 March 2020 07:43 (four years ago) link
my wife announced to us all that she'd never seen Spirited Away despite it being one of the kids' favourite films growing up!we're not sure how she could have been always out of the room when it was on, going to rectify it later
― thomasintrouble, Wednesday, 4 March 2020 08:18 (four years ago) link
Watched Nausicaa & Mononoke in quick succession. I really wanted to like Nausicaa more, it looked fantastic and I was instantly drawn into its world, however although most of his films drop you into the middle of a unique and fully realised world it usually serves as setting to a more universal story - even when it's as integral as in Spirited Away things are rarely explained, you just have to take them as they come. By contrast this had too much exposition and the story, especially the climax, relied too much on the invented quasi-mystical ecology. Also it was too damn long and at some points it seemed like 'young girl yells at giant insects: the movie'. Some great moments though, especially the giant at the end.
Also within the first few minutes I thought 'wtf this looks like the work of Moebius'; turns out Miyazaki directed it "under Moebius' influence" (his (or translator's) words, apols to mark s). Great interview between the two of them here: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/miyazaki_moebious.html
Mononoke was also too long, also featured a protagonist overly fond of yelling, this one way more annoying than Nausicaa. Even though she was eeeeeevil the Lady Eboshi was much more likeable, as was the mercenary monk, though of all the Engish dubs I've seen/heard so far Billy Bob Thornton's voice is the only one I've thought was really out of place. The eldritch Forest Spirit was great and the "I'm going to show you how to kill a god" scene was awesome. I couldn't really get behind the more conventional aspects, a lot of dashing around on horseback (or elkback) with no real sense of peril.
and re: kiki from upthread:
kiki is a way more anxiety-inducing watch than it should be
yes! i am perhaps unusually anxious about lateness/missed appointments but dropping the package in the forest/dithering around at the old lady's and missing the party gave me palpitations.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Monday, 9 March 2020 11:01 (four years ago) link
> Also it was too damn long
it's only about 40% of the book(s). i think it was made after volume 2 and it ended up as 5 volumes. this or laputa is probably my favourite.
> Mononoke
english text by neil gaiman. terrible violent thing.
> kiki is a way more anxiety-inducing
that propeller-bicycle at the end looks like a deathtrap
― koogs, Monday, 9 March 2020 20:26 (four years ago) link
lady eboshi is not strictly evil, that's part of the point
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 9 March 2020 20:30 (four years ago) link
it's always hard to convert an epic manga series into a watchable movie... nausicaa does a pretty good job imo, considering what a feat that is... on the other hand, akira, while a fun movie, feels like a trailer compared to the manga it's based on
― Bstep, Monday, 9 March 2020 20:55 (four years ago) link
lady eboshi is not strictly evil, that's part of the pointshe's not an ahem cartoon villain, sure. i don't think caring for the people of irontown or even the lepers are huge points in her favour though.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Monday, 9 March 2020 21:04 (four years ago) link
this seems like a good thing to lower your blood pressurehttps://ghibli.fandom.com/wiki/Iblard_Jikanhttps://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpn1g7
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 18 March 2020 18:09 (four years ago) link
rewatching ARRIETTY (2011)
i love how much she adores her dad and is excited by his skills and him being deadpan stoic back at her
― mark s, Saturday, 21 March 2020 19:57 (four years ago) link
Have vented on this before, but find Arrietty almost impossible to watch, in large part because of the UK English dub. Also #1 daughter watched it a lot as a 4 year old and took to addressing me and her mum as "Mother?" and "Father?" in that piercingly insufferable middle class tone, often while we were wheeling her around Streatham Sainsbury's.
― Stevie T, Saturday, 21 March 2020 20:05 (four years ago) link
i'm watching it subbed so luckily this isn't an issue
― mark s, Saturday, 21 March 2020 20:07 (four years ago) link
as a uk english person who used to read the uk english books i thought it was fine except for the boy. was a bit of a shock at first but then a relief from all the american dubs. olivia colman was pretty good.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Saturday, 21 March 2020 20:16 (four years ago) link
wild theory: Shou (the boy) is actually pregnant...
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 21 March 2020 20:53 (four years ago) link
Don’t be silly
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Saturday, 21 March 2020 23:11 (four years ago) link
rewatching LAPUTA (1984) as i break down to make some room in my flat
tentative critical observation so far: tintin is one visual ancestor (see also KIKI) and YELLOW SUBMARINE another
― mark s, Sunday, 29 March 2020 16:14 (four years ago) link
tintin ancestry comes in by way of lupin iii surely
― ciderpress, Sunday, 29 March 2020 17:13 (four years ago) link
maybe yeah
― mark s, Sunday, 29 March 2020 17:22 (four years ago) link
The dub version of Kiki that's on Netflix is the one with the terrible corny music and the extraneous OTT Phil Hartman dialogue that was eventually pared down. Sucks for folks who will know this version best.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 2 April 2020 02:03 (four years ago) link
oh we watched it the other day and u remember thinking I didn't remember all that stuff
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Thursday, 2 April 2020 07:36 (four years ago) link
The dub version of Kiki that's on Netflix is the one with the terrible corny music and the extraneous OTT Phil Hartman dialogue that was eventually pared down.
I've never seen it before so don't know what to compare it with, but it doesn't have the "I can talk again!" line at the end that forks rails about.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Thursday, 2 April 2020 07:44 (four years ago) link
https://www.quora.com/Did-Hayao-Miyazaki-really-say-that-anime-was-a-mistake?share=1Some really funny stuff in here, sure some of you have heard it already but there's some stuff I didnt know. I think he's right about a lot of things but it's often a bit too sweeping. I've heard that he doesn't even like his work being called anime.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 3 April 2020 17:05 (four years ago) link
I used to think that all japanese animation was called anime but apparently that's not the case. I would like to know if anyone could clarify this.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 3 April 2020 17:06 (four years ago) link
ponyo (the only good film) is now on netflix
― mark s, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:05 (four years ago) link
obviously i am watching it, i will always watch it
― mark s, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:06 (four years ago) link
anime as the term is used in the west just means any animation produced in japan
― ciderpress, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:32 (four years ago) link
I can't remember who it was that said differently. Might be something like the way people said gekiga is not manga?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
when lisa and sosuke are fleeing the tsunami in the little pink car and ponyo is running on top of the storm fishwaves is the most exciting scene in cinema history sorry if this offends
― mark s, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:54 (four years ago) link
also the high stylisation of the sea
― mark s, Friday, 3 April 2020 19:55 (four years ago) link
ponyo is running on top of the storm fishwaves is the most exciting scene in cinema history
it is certainly the most exciting scene in the film. it is a very good scene! the whole thing, from the old folks home to the house. lisa's driving is terrifying. love how calmly accepting she is at the end, 'my son's favourite human-faced fish has turned into a little girl, ok'. tina fey is a+ voice talent in this.
watched howls, it is now in my top 4. sure the end with the scarecrow/prince is hugely out of the blue but till then it almost matches spirited away for a wild thrill ride. As usual with Miyazaki there is a wealth of detail and a dearth of explanation (this is good not bad), e.g. all the childhood ephemera in Howl's bedroom. The only thing I thought was unduly skipped over was a scene with the witch of the waste: after she's had her powers taken she becomes entirely simple, except briefly after Sophie's mum visits she perks up, deals with the black wriggly spy thing, smokes a cigar and says she wants a little chat with Howl - but then she goes right back to being simple and it's not mentioned again. I've started reading the book, will be interesting to see how much of this is fleshed out. Already some major changes - Sophie's sisters are dispensed with, Howl saves Sophie from sleazy pickup guys but in the book he is the sleazy pickup guy!
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Monday, 6 April 2020 10:30 (four years ago) link
... also love how sophie occasionally wavers between an old woman/a not so old woman/her normal younger self.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Monday, 6 April 2020 10:38 (four years ago) link
The film takes a sharp left turn from the book round about the time Sophie meets the King, iirc. It's more 'inspired by' than 'based on' from that point on.
― la légende d'beer (Matt #2), Monday, 6 April 2020 11:21 (four years ago) link
@mark s:
I mentioned upthread that Ponyo might dip a little too deep into the well of Northern European folklore (HC Anderson/R Wagner) for the typical Ghibli fan. Did you find it a more "classics"-informed tale than the other Ghibli films you've watched?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 6 April 2020 15:21 (four years ago) link
you said before yes but i'm not sure i get it? (well i get HCR i guess somewhat but wagner? do i just not know enough abt the submarines in wagner?)
on the whole ponyo seems *less* european to me than many of the others (if european means euro kidlit across the 20th century, which they are full of): its setting is the tsunami-threatened present-day japanese coastline, with warning loudhailers on poles and etc
― mark s, Tuesday, 7 April 2020 14:23 (four years ago) link
i agree that it's a little different from the rest of studio ghibli tho
― mark s, Tuesday, 7 April 2020 14:24 (four years ago) link
the Ponyo score pretty much co-ops Wagner's Walkürenritt for Ponyo's "tsunami" chase, from the part of the opera when Brunhilde and her valkyrie sisters are trying to return the One Ring to the Rhine.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 15:25 (four years ago) link
ah ok!
― mark s, Tuesday, 7 April 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link
might fuck around and rewatch PONYO (2008)
― mark s, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:49 (four years ago) link
actually i already started, love how utterly fkn wired and exhausted her dad looks from the get-go
― mark s, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:50 (four years ago) link
he's all jacked up on that elixir.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 19:14 (four years ago) link
also how recklessly sosuke's mum drives, she reminds me of mine getting me to school in like 1969 lol
― mark s, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 19:19 (four years ago) link