Dylan's Christian period

I should point out that much Christian evangelism has NOT been inclusive, and I don't mean this pejoratiely; there's a tradition stretching centuries back in which the point is to separate the saved from the damned. This theology coincides with Dylan's lifelong penchant for pointing fingers at enemies. It's obvious, which is why the rockcrit establishment's myopia during this period stands out.

Infidels has "Jokerman," a top five Dylan track, a pleasant misogynist trifle called "Sweetheart Like You," and six or seven examples of well-played, thoughtfully produced twaddle.

*pejoratively

It's innaresting how angry and uninviting Dylan's version of xtianity is. Like, very little of it is uplifting or rapturous or thankful, a lot of it focuses on the harsh, judgmental end of things, not really the kind of angle that wins a lot of converts.

Dylan's Presbyterian period.

No. It isn't fire 'n' brimstone.

It's HELL TIME, MAN

xps

here are bob's really coherent thoughts on san francisco:

Long time ago they used to have these Greek plays, I guess, pretty long time ago. Anyway now they have groups called actors, you know that. Back then they had actors too, but they called them hypocrites. That's right! There'd be like a play, like a play with thirty people in it, but actually there'd only be four. They all used to wear masks. They'd all come out in a mask, [Dylan says a few words in a high-pitched voice] talk in another voice. They’d just wear a mask. So four people could play the part of thirty people. That's a heavy responsibility, keeps you on your toes. Never know who you are, so there's a lot of hypocrites. They're talking, you know, using Jesus' name, but don't you let that put you off, cause you're still dealing with the world. Jesus has overcome the world, that's what he did at the Cross. As simple as that. You may think it's complicated, but actually if you look at Jesus you gotta look at the Cross. Actually if you're wondering why all these things are happening these days. Joshua you know he went to, I believe it was Canaan land and God told him at certain times to destroy all the Canaanites, every man, women and children there. That's bad! He certainly hated to leave the children, but they were just all defiled. And there was some cities that he said, "oh go in there yeah" and Joshua wondered why, and God said because their iniquity is not yet full. So now, when you look around today, when we started out this tour, we started out in San Francisco. And ..., that's a ... San Francisco is a kind of a unique town these days. I think it's either one third or two thirds of the population there are homosexuals. All right! I guess they're working up to a 100 per cent, I don't know. Anyway, it’s a growing place for homosexuals, and I read they have a homosexuals politics, it’s a political party, I don't mean it's going on in somebody’s closet, I mean it's just political. All right, you know what I'm talking about. Anyway would just think ..., I guess the iniquity’s not yet full, and I don't wanna be around when it is!

Are those lyrics

you know what I'm talkin about

lol

xp I think Band of the Hand is a couple years later like 85/86, but he definitely kept up that fire and brimstone vibe. In fact, a lot of the apocalyptic blues stuff in the late 90s and early 2000s like "Cold Irons Bound", "Tweedly Dee and Tweedly Dum", and "High Water", and even the movie "Masked and Anonymous" are the descendants of the christian period with a lot more humor.

"Masked and Anonymous" is underrated

it's pretty stupid but there's some really good stuff in there

Re: "Slow Train," the verse in question wasn't just putting across a dubious argument, it framed it in a way that came off as pretty jingoistic, and when I go back to it after listening to the whole album, it feels offensively intolerant. (This is placed in context with what else was being said throughout the album: "you either got faith or you got unbelief / and there's no neutral ground," "you were tellin' him about Mohammed in one breath / You never mentioned one time the Man who came / And died a criminal's death," and on and on...)

I find nothing interesting or compelling about the "you non-believers are all going to hell" screeds - the few songs I do like from this period aren't like that at all, and they're great, complex spirituals, but the rest is just puerile.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

I don't know what anyone's access is like to CD retailers is these days, but the Infidels remaster has been a budget CD ($5-7) for years now.

I feel like Infidels is a used record store staple, unless it was unusually popular in Minnesota

what's a CD

it's a compact disc :)
underrated format!

The Future of Music!

Christian Dominance

Calvinist Dylan

infidels is nice on CD — you really get that crisp knopfler sound. sly + robbie bringing the bounce.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

zing touched again

Yeah, I know "Dylanologists" well say they're in the great tradition of his 'finger-pointin'' songs from the '60s, like it's hearing a Born Again "Positively Fourth Street," but they don't have the wit or sharp humor to make the comparison any more than superficial. I tried to like them, but a lot of times they just sound like sour haranguing.

RE: "Infidels," if you took out some of the worst songs (maybe the ones with the bizarre crackpot lyrics on the evils of space travel) and replaced them with better outtakes like "Blind Willie McTell," "Foot of Pride," etc. it would be an excellent album.

I'm sorry, but if you can't find humor in Dylan's christian songs . . .

Shakes, if you like going to hell stuff, check out Dylan's between song rants/sermons from his christian period on youtube. Like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75_ceACC7-o

Dylan: [rambling story about the Antichrist.]
Combative Audience Member: "Rock and roll!"
Dylan: "You can go down and rock and roll. You can go see KISS. You can rock and roll your way all the way down to the PIT!"

Followed by Dylan asking for the house lights to be brought up so he can see the people heckling him. It's just like Dylan with the Hawks in 66 except Jesus is his backing band.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p37uv

The above one is great. Rambling story in which Dylan compares biblical prophecy to the recent Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, during which Dylan cites a list of great philosophers such as "Plato . . . who else now . . . Jimmy Reed? . . . Nietzsche . . . ." Then the band tears into the best version of Solid Rock ever, almost heavy metal.

Or maybe it just ain't funny, but comedy's subjective. I'm sure "Man Gave Names to All the Animals" is a riot with plenty of people.

I grew up in the 70s and early 80s in a non-denominational evangelical church that was a lot like this. Most of the members of the church (including my parents) were ex-hippies who came to the Church in a type of rejection of the excesses of the 60s.

Yeah, me too. This wikipedia page about Lonnie Frisbee talks about the genesis of that movement, which had its epicenter in Southern California. Dylan's gospel period always seemed completely if not normal then at least not weird, because I grew up hearing people talk like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Frisbee

That song is a great childrens song

I think sour hectoring is a fair assessment and hey sonetimes thats what I want tbh

Xps

Oh man great links PBKR! Thx

Lonnie Frisbee, another real life Pynchon name

Lol yes

Followed by Dylan asking for the house lights to be brought up so he can see the people heckling him. It's just like Dylan with the Hawks in 66 except Jesus is his backing band.

― Biden my time/Drinking her wine (PBKR)

the hawks in '66 rocked harder than christ ever did

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E17/145494/m/QUxMIFRIRSBCRVNUIEJBTkRTCiBBUkUgQUZGSUxJQVRFRCBXSVRICiBTQVRBTi4=

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E17/145494.jpg

Apologies, is there any way to delete my last two posts? I'm still new at this and completely botched a post that's no longer worth posting.

wow thanks for the tip on the Sinéad cover of "I Believe In You", that's a devastating performance. it also appears on some kind of maxi-single for "Thank You For Hearing Me" from 1994, along with a remix of "Fire On Babylon" that's making my hair stand up.

Listening to O'Connor cover now.

Lots of otm 2019-20 posts (as I said at some length on Rolling Bootleg Series, I think another ilox's "cocaine dreams" sums up a lot of the giantor box sampler, despite frequent musical excellence). Re gay, he mentioned still hanging out with Ginsberg, and when interviewer asked how he squared that, replied to the effect that no prob (think he might be into Personal Priesthood Principle, like it's up to *you* to Choose---but might be projecting my own pre-Moral Majority experience as Southern Baptist)(It's still a thing with
at least some of them; not all churches are in the Convention, which itself currently tries not to issue so many Assholy statements, having driven so many congregants away).

*gigantor* box sampler

Something like individual gays, old friends etc. no prob, but as political masses, uh-oh (am reminded of Delany recalling a pre-Stonewall bust, down by the trucks---so many guys came swarming out, that even he got scared, and he was one of 'em).

My band is actually working up a version of “Man Gave Names...” It’s not a song we find stupid, or funny or whatever. We just like it.

Cool, please post at some point. For some dark reason, my computer will no longer let me post YouTubes, but
here's this round-up (it's also on spotify, apple, play)
https://www.google.com/search?q=Townes+Van+Zandt+Man+Gave+Names+To+All+The+Animals&oq=Townes+Van+Zandt+Man+Gave+Names+To+All+The+Animals&aqs=chrome..69i57.31557j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

shot of love may be the best one of these, and i love them all! "property of jesus," what a jam!!!!

eh idk if it's the *best*... I mean, it has Lenny Bruce on it

count me among the few weirdos who likes "lenny bruce." the lyric is.... yeah, but the arrangement feels kinda proto-paul westerberg solo somehow

trouble no more is, forgive me, a revelation

shot of love may be the best one of these, and i love them all! "property of jesus," what a jam!!!!

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson),

Pleasantly ephemeral -- I like the gutbucket mix. "Every Grain of Sand" and "in the Summertime" though.

"every grain of sand" has been one of my fav dylan songs ever since i heard emmylou harris' cover, i was happy to love his version. "in the summertime" is amazing. heavy van morrison energy to these records (i guess it's all the gospel?)