Wherein We Elect Our Favourite Classical Compositions of… the 1950s

XXP: Aw shucks. I needed a nap (or several) after rolling out a ballot-based poll at strange hours this week. :)

My first instinct is actually to opt for Musique funèbre, if only because that (and Lutoslawki generally) was a very early gateway into this sort thing. (Maybe it's unhip, but the importance for me of Naxos CDs selling at 4-for-$20 pre-filesharing cannot be underestimated. LOL. I made low-risk investments in their Quatre Études de rythme and Boulez piano sonatas not long after that, come to think of it!)

The Idil Biret disc of the Boulez sonatas? I often listened to that with a bottle of wine in my first apartment.

Yeah! I shall have to dig it out. It's been a while...

The naxos lutoslawski series was fantastic

:) I was a complete n00b so was lucky to have stumbled on it. I was all "these discs are selling for peanuts in non-specialist suburban stores -- why isn't everyone listening to Lutoslawsli and Messiaen all day? This Lutoslawski fellow should be a household name!" etc. LOL.

Welcome back, NNN!

Re: Boulez's sonatas, I'm fond of Paavali Jumppanen's set, recorded under the composer's supervision (iirc). There are more fiery interpretations, but his approach works wonders for #3 in particular.

^ noted, and placed on a wee playlist:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4JpYWnZkUNxUZeB0zCkR9U

Nice to have this bonus excuse for (re-)listening once more. There a number of things here I claim to "know" but "heard a few times circa 2003" would be more devastatingly accurate. :)

My typos are getting ridiculous. "cannot be OVER-estimated" is what I meant several posts back. Blimey.

jumppanen hollerin’ with joy what with all these fine recommendations !

Please listen to Julian Bream's recording of "El Polifemo de Oro" btw.

^^^ listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about.

Ha, thx

outstanding work again from pomenitul; thanks to these polls C20th classical has dominated my listening all year and I am dutifully working through this goldmine of a list. lots I haven't heard before. early favourites from the discoveries so far: the earle brown piece & the deliciously sparse pleasures of ustvolskaya.

what a decade! it's all over the place. all the ligeti pieces are really interesting and neat and I like them all (any suggestions for a better fifties SQ?), as well as the six bagatelles, but I will save my ligeti vote for his unbeatable sixties run. penderecki's emanations for two string orchestras tuned a minor 2nd apart is also worth a shout even if this textural string stuff is done better later.

I have to out myself as a savage oaf and admit I've always struggled with messiaen's piano music. catalogue d'oiseaux sounds like a wonderful idea on paper but I have always found it a slog and it put me off messiaen for years. much prefer the colour of oiseaux exotiques and especially the way he marinates in the organ's thick, chunkiness in livre d'orgue.

I've got a soft spot for the villa-lobos guitar concerto & I love all of lou harrison's guitar music - I think his pre-modern/eastern tendencies are well-suited to it - and serenado por gitaro from the suite for national guitar is a gorgeous highlight (ropey grasp on dates for his pieces but I think the rest of the suite was composed much later).

I am ofc tempted to vote for the bracing US Highball; jovially bellowing like some sort of train pirate in just intonation w/ all that propulsive percussion and those kitharas that sound like they're melting - the day that this isn't amazing to me will be a sad one. it's so rooted in the depression and forties tho it feels odd to vote for it as a fifties piece. probably would have voted for diamorphoses if it was listed, I can still hear a keen freshness in its visceral building sound, but will probably happily vote for either of the other xenakis pieces or gesang der junglinge (which probably shouldn't be here either really but it cannot be denied)

There is no music I hate more in the world than musicals

me too man, me too

Booming post, ogmor! I used to fully share your reservations about Messiaen's ornithological piano music, but they've subsided over time, partly thanks to videos such as this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryx-b52V7g4

I've got a soft spot for the villa-lobos guitar concerto

So do I, yet I somehow conjured up an internal narrative according to which I'd forgotten to poll it in the 1940s, even as (I now realize) it was composed in… 1951. Mea culpa, once again. I've listened to Julian Bream's recording of it (with André Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra) more times than I can remember.

There is no music I hate more in the world than musicals

me too man, me too

Not me. (Well, if we're talking musicals of the last 40 years or so, then yes, me too.)

I grew up on marx bros (but that's not really the same thing) and I do have some fondness for gene kelly but in general I cannot abide that sort of glitzy theatricality, even if westside story isn't a particularly egregious example

I've no choice but to agree with that, musicals are vile.

Ogmor's proper post makes me really want to dive into this decade and reflect. A chance I will get in my corona deserted office tomorrow!

have all of you musical-haters stopped to consider that

THE RUM-TUM-TUGGER IS A CURIOUS CAT?!?!

What a list! I went for Agon but I barely know 5% of this.

xp the Rum Tum Tugger is a terrible bore

Also managed to miss all of the C20th polls... I'd have broken Metamorphosen's duck in the '40s poll, I think.

I've no bone to pick with the Rum Tum Tugger as long as he remains silent and under (paper) house arrest, i.e. in Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats.

I haven't figured this out yet. I'll never figure this out.

Btw don't forget to request 1960s titles if you suspect I may forget them (not an ill-founded hunch tbh). As always, I'll do my best to include as many as possible.

don't envy you the job of whittling it down to fifty - this is why I suggested five year polls :) I am sitting in a room is probably one of the lucier pieces least likely to qualify for inclusion but it's so beautiful & fragile & unique & perfect, and there aren't many occasions to talk about it so I will at least mention it here

It's a wonderful piece, but I think it would be a better fit for our upcoming electroacoustic/musique concrète/sound art poll (at least I hope it's upcoming – who would be best suited to such a task?).

Does being in lockdown speed up time? Thought I still had ages to decide on a pick here!

xp that poll should def happen! Won't do it alone but would help out tbh.

Heh, I guess it does.

xp my knowledge of the stuff is severely lacking so someone else would definitely have to take over.

Obvious chestnuts:
Berio - Sinfonia
Stockhausen - Stimmung
Riley - In C
Glass - Music in Similar Motion
Ligeti - Atmospheres
Penderecki - Threnody...

Guitar music:
Britten - Nocturnal after John Dowland, op. 70 (Bream recording recommended again)
Stephen Dodgson - Partita
Maurice Ohana - Si le jour parait ...

As far as the actual 50s poll, it probably comes down to Le marteau vs Brindle. I realize the former is the more important and greater work but the personal connection with the latter is strong.

I could check the other thread, but I'm guessing it may have been you that lobbied for inclusion of the Brindle, Sund4r? If so, thanks! Enjoyed it, and there's a fair chance I wouldn't ever know about it otherwise. :)

Yes, glad you liked it.

I may just switch to 5 years for the remaining polls per ogmor's suggestion because my current longlist for the 60s is as excruciating as you'd expect.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Fuck it, I'm voting Scelsi.

Anyone want to rep for Galina Ustvolskaya? Three pieces here and I've heard none before.

They represent a bleaker, starker, less consolatory late Shostakovich avant la lettre (he reportedly told her that she influenced him, not the other way around). For the Grand Duet, try Mstislav Rostropovich and Igor Uriash. The Violin Sonata is well served by Patricia Kopatchinskaja and Markus Hinterhäuser (on an excellent ECM disc). As for the 4th Piano Sonata, I like Ivan Sokolov's take, among many others.

fwiw (nothing as i don't vote in polls lol) a vote for anything also counts as a vote for 4'33", you just assume it's being performed somewhere poorly soundproofed with e.g. zimmerman's canto di sperenza bleeding thru the walls, to be officially part of the cage performance ("noises of your body" etc)

this is canon

nothing as i don't vote in polls lol

C'mon mark, don't be such a hipster.

mark not voting is canon too iirc

Anyway Pom, huge thanks - again - for the recommendations!

Btw are you familiar with this book? Performing Pain: Music and Trauma in Eastern Europe Looks rad!

Agon
Possibly my most listened-to Stravinsky piece

I've got reservations about Stravinsky but Agon is classic af.

Btw are you familiar with this book? Performing Pain: Music and Trauma in Eastern Europe Looks rad!

It does indeed. Thanks for the tip.

why scelsi pom? I assume it's one of the things would especially benefit from a live hearing

I am no closer to working out what to vote for

Rundel's live recording on Mode is quite good, incidentally!

I'm a spectralist stan and hence sympathetic to proto-spectralism. I also worry that no one else will vote for it.

That said, at least ten other works could have won out depending on ineffable fluctuations.

My hopeless anglophilia doesn't always extend to this type of music so Lachrymae and those RVW symphonies are fresh to my ears. (Didn't even realise RVW was still composing this late!) It's all quite... luvly.

I spent an inordinate amount of time with RVW's symphonies in February and have finally come to appreciate their worth, thanks to Haitink's cycle in particular. They're much less stereotypically 'English' than I used to believe, that is to say less reactionary – somewhat in line with Sibelius's own complicated position within 20th century music. I've always loved Britten's Lachrymae, however, especially his later arrangement for viola and string orchestra. Theme and variations in reverse, wherein the borrowed melody is revealed at the very end of the piece, is in fact one of my favourite structural tropes in classical music.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

An embarrassment of riches, split in twain:

Wherein We Elect Our Favourite Classical Compositions of… the 1960s – Part I (1960-1964)

today i learned RVW was working on an opera on Thomas the Rhymer at the time of his death

feel pretty robbed tbh!

Really really should have remembered to vote. For Marteau sans maitre.

I’ve just realised that Shostakovich 11 (Year 1905) was omitted even from the Hon mentions. Outrage. I was saving my Shosty vote for that. Harrumph.

Sorry, Shosty may well be my favourite composer on some days but I can’t stomach the 11th and the 12th. God knows I’ve tried.

looove the first movement, can take or leave the rest

i like the 12th

Haha, tbh, rereading my own old paper, I had to review what some of those set theory concepts were. :\

I read as much as I conceivably could of your article, Sund4r, and it reminded me that I am but a rank amateur when it comes to this stuff! I know enough to grasp the overall premise, but your analysis is several magnitudes of complexity and insight beyond my meagre musicological – and mathematical – understanding.

It was more technical/arcane than I remembered tbh. The math that you need to be able to read and apply pitch class set theory is mostly just arithmetic, though, really.