Bobby
― timellison, Friday, 27 March 2020 08:05 (four years ago) link
"livin' in a nightmare on ELM STREET!" LOLOLOLOL!!1!11!!11!!!!!!
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 12:11 (four years ago) link
absolutely fuckin great
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 27 March 2020 12:34 (four years ago) link
"I'm just a Patsy, like Patsy Cline"
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 March 2020 12:50 (four years ago) link
This has more lumpy couplets than good ones, can't stop thinking about We Didn't Start the Fire.
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Friday, 27 March 2020 13:09 (four years ago) link
nah, the difference is that he doesn't "mean" anything. He's been moving into the space for 20+ years now—on the one hand he's deadly serious, on the other daring you to take him seriously
He's not pulling "ideas" down, he's not "inspired," he's not a conduit for anything, he's refining "late period" by going practically vaporous, letting it all pass right through him. Authenticity, sincerity, intentions, even lyricism—it's all moot. He's not there! The best way to go out imo
I fucking love this song
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 27 March 2020 13:38 (four years ago) link
anyway this is a dated outtake, new material (I don't think we're gonna get any) would probably be a straight read of a Friends script or something
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 27 March 2020 13:41 (four years ago) link
I find it fascinating that in 1962 he wrote a song about the new, young (alive) president calling him up on the telephone, and here 50+ years later we get his meditation on the man's killing.
― Sam Weller, Friday, 27 March 2020 13:54 (four years ago) link
Play me a song, Mr. Wolfman Jack / Play it for me in my long Cadillac
I would believe it if you told me this was written by a Dylan AI
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:16 (four years ago) link
Glad to hear his take on JFK tho, been a pretty slow year so far, nothing really worthy of his great pen
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:19 (four years ago) link
all that junk and all that jazzplay one for the birdman of alcatraz
― ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:23 (four years ago) link
I would argue that this has been the case since 1964-65, if not earlier. He is the least authentic artist ever.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:26 (four years ago) link
sure I think he's always been an "antenna" or whatever, I guess what I'm saying is that in the last couple decades it seems like he's done away with all of the mediating measures, all of the signal processing. These litanies are enough, they have all of the meaning he requires, he's really gotten entirely out of his own way
like instead of writing a song about Lenny Bruce or Reuben Carter or whatever he can recite their names, there's nothing more to be derived from his perspective on things, he's self-aware enough to know that ppl are just by reflex going to project their own Dylan onto whatever he writes anyway, so he just doesn't bother. It's like this weird thing where he's actually earned that prerogative and for me at least it's not better or worse than anything else. Anyway he's got whiskey or wrought iron gates or whatever to make.
A friend recently expressed disappointment that he had writers for Theme Time Radio Hour—wanting to believe Dylan is just a pure unceasing stream of wit and wisdom, but pesonally idgaf, it's Dylan!
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:44 (four years ago) link
Not sure if it is a great Dylan song exactly, it is certainly though the best Don Delillo novel in a minute
Something very Street Hassle-y about the music & instrumentation
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 27 March 2020 14:44 (four years ago) link
the arrangement of this is fucking remarkable
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:46 (four years ago) link
yes
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:47 (four years ago) link
Apparently it’s his longest song ever, surpassing the runtime of “Highlands.”
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 14:50 (four years ago) link
> doesn't "mean" anything
I get the opposite, it feels incredibly literal for Dylan, and literally sentimental. I totally agree with the idea of a vaporous late Dylan, but this hits me as a cake of incense, not the smoulder.
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:53 (four years ago) link
"Murder Most Foul" b/w "Murder Most Foul (extended dub mix)"
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 14:56 (four years ago) link
i'm just thinking of phil ochs' song, i'm thinking of jozo karamatic's "smrt u dallasu" (dylan knows about that one, i'm sure he does)... about armand schaubroeck's "god made the blues to kill me"... i mean, a lot of people wrote songs about the assassination, at the time, and this sounds like he's taking the piss out of all of them. dylan is a phantom and has been all kinds of people... in this song he's the elderly llewyn davis!
it is sad, though. he did write propaganda songs. his songs did used to mean something. and if he was too much of an "artist" for that, fair enough, but what sort of nihilism is this? be a ghost, sure, but why make fun of the earnest young man for ever having believed? what he did back in '63 helped, not as much as he may have imagined but it did. by making fun of himself he's making fun of everyone who is still trying to do the work he abandoned, which isn't, i don't think, fair.
last songs? lee hazlewood was better at that sort of thing.
― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 27 March 2020 15:07 (four years ago) link
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy)
if it's sincere his mind has gone. i mean, is he back to being the voice of his generation? deranged, meaningless rambles, namechecking like it's a fucking episode of Family Guy?
― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 27 March 2020 15:10 (four years ago) link
why make fun of the earnest young man for ever having believed? what he did back in '63 helped, not as much as he may have imagined but it did. by making fun of himself he's making fun of everyone who is still trying to do the work he abandoned, which isn't, i don't think, fair.How is he “making fun of himself”?
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
Also, he wrote "protest songs," not "propaganda songs" (they're sort of opposites, aren't they?)
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 15:44 (four years ago) link
Explain to me the difference between what he is doing on this song and what he is doing on Desolation Row?
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:03 (four years ago) link
I think Desolation Row is packed with meaning and I will happily give you my take on it if you want.
― The fillyjonk who believed in pandemics (Lily Dale), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:09 (four years ago) link
amazing how close a lot of this song is to being full-on Grocery Bag:
I'm just a patsy -- CLINE!
Living in a nightmare -- ELM STREET!
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:14 (four years ago) link
xp Be my guest, but I don't see how that makes it different than this song.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:17 (four years ago) link
In case not everyone is aware, Kennedy’s motorcade was on Elm Street when he was shot — so there’s a double meaning there. I think the “name checking” parts of this song are very meaningful; it’s like an elegy for the 20th Century, as evoked through cultural references that also stretch back farther (all the way to, you know, “Hamlet”).
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 16:21 (four years ago) link
― morrisp
in best bob dylan style, i stole that line from someone who's been dead since around 1986 and am not super qualified to debate the point
― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:26 (four years ago) link
I think the “name checking” parts of this song are very meaningful; it’s like an elegy for the 20th Century, as evoked through cultural references that also stretch back farther (all the way to, you know, “Hamlet”).
but how does it stack up to
JFKBlown awayWhat else do I have to say?
this is Dylan's "Junior Dad"
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
I only make it all the way through once last night before bed. I went from loving it to kind of hating it and back to loving it again. I really like the dirge-like arrangement and the instrumentation, but the lyrics kept throwing me.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
And while some of the couplets are indeed clunky, I think there may be a deliberate strategy to discuss Kennedy’s murder in very matter-of-fact, even clichéd terms (similar to how Lennon’s death was addressed in “Roll on John”) — to leave “breathing room” for evoking its heavy cultural weight in the other parts of the song, and tying in the Kennedy mythos with all those other aspects of Americana, both fictional and real. (I dunno, I’ve also only listened to it once all the way thru so far!)
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
xp You know, I think you're right. Maybe one of these days I'll wander over to the Dylan: classic or dud thread and post my take on Desolation Row, but it doesn't really have anything to do with what I think of this song. I like it a lot but can't articulate what I think of it yet, I'll have to let it percolate.
― The fillyjonk who believed in pandemics (Lily Dale), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
music reminds me of Dirty Three
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:30 (four years ago) link
In case not everyone is aware, Kennedy’s motorcade was on Elm Street when he was shot — so there’s a double meaning there.
they are both streets that something bad happened on, i would put the meaning multiplier at 1.25, maybe lower
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:34 (four years ago) link
Jimmy Wapo reference
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:36 (four years ago) link
Dylan's entire studio protest output is basically about 13 songs off his first four albums, and that is only if you include stuff like "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall".
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:38 (four years ago) link
Dumb comma.
You can also probably remove "Song to Woody" and "I Shall be Free" from the list.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:40 (four years ago) link
@ums otm re Dirty Threethe music is really gorgeous, very eerie too. and the far-off rumble of drums when he repeats the “murder most foul” semi chorus is cool
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
they are both streets that something bad happened on, i would put the meaning multiplier at 1.25, maybe lowerOk, it’s a “double reference” — however you prefer to phrase it.
― morrisp, Friday, 27 March 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
Friend just pointed out the arrangement sounds like Ghosteen, kinda.
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:53 (four years ago) link
xp for more insights check out my new podcast where i go through dylan line by line and rate the precise amount of meaning in each lyric
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:54 (four years ago) link
It seems to me that part of the whole premise of the song's construction is that lines are there because they rhyme. And needing rhymes, you allow things in. But I'm not convinced of their vacuousness.
― timellison, Friday, 27 March 2020 18:14 (four years ago) link
Hey, and Billy Joel's in there, too. In fact, it's the first song he asks Wolfman to play. I admire the inclusivity.
― timellison, Friday, 27 March 2020 18:27 (four years ago) link
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Friday, March 27, 2020 11:53 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah there's a strong cave feeling. i was reminded of higgs boson blues, mostly cause of all the references.
― ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:30 (four years ago) link
Play Oscar Peterson, play Stan GetzPlay "Blue Sky," play Dickie Betts
― timellison, Friday, 27 March 2020 18:31 (four years ago) link
I found this pretty lovely. The lyrics idk I heard less than half of them but found them pretty disarming, laughed a few times. Definitely felt like it could be a matter of faith whether I took them as poignant or just daft but I’m not sure what I would have to gain from being a scepticI’m not a Dylan person really but desolation row is one of my all time faves so that might explain itDon’t really care about Kennedy at all don’t @ me
― felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:33 (four years ago) link
"play Don Henleyplay Glenn Frey"well, yeah
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:33 (four years ago) link
I love this
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:34 (four years ago) link
"Changing of the Guard"?
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 10 November 2022 17:26 (one year ago) link
That's a great one, too...
― Reese's Pisces Iscariot (morrisp), Thursday, 10 November 2022 17:28 (one year ago) link
I listed them a couple years ago
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 November 2022 17:30 (one year ago) link
Good list!
I was never a fan of "Changing of the Guard" until I heard Patti Smith's cover. She basically stripped away most of the instruments, but the most effective change was transposing the saxophone part to the piano - makes an enormous difference.
The beginning of "Political World" is pretty cool, but the song never delivers and goes nowhere. Lanois really pushed Dylan to open Oh Mercy with "Series of Dreams" but to no avail - it's not even on the album. Would've been one of my favorite Dylan openers had it happened.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:06 (one year ago) link
I mostly agree with Alfred's ranking, but I would swap "Gotta Serve Somebody" with "Jokerman" and "Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum".
― o. nate, Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:07 (one year ago) link
into the fiery furnace with you!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:09 (one year ago) link
My smokin' Dylan hot-take is that omission of "Series of Dreams" from Oh Mercy is actually a bigger deal than the fabled omission of "Blind Willie McTell" from Infidels.
― Reese's Pisces Iscariot (morrisp), Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:13 (one year ago) link
It's that sound: it's a warm shallow ocean
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:26 (one year ago) link
I could get on board with that take. xp
― o. nate, Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:32 (one year ago) link
xp perfect description
For whatever reason, it always makes me think of water. Like I've blasted it on many grey, rainy days, and sometimes it brings to mind an old luxury car commercial where said car is driving through crashing waves on the edge of a beach in slow motion.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 10 November 2022 19:34 (one year ago) link
You could argue that song invented The War on Drugs.
― o. nate, Thursday, 10 November 2022 19:52 (one year ago) link
"Thunder on the Mountain" was his best opening track off an album since "Blood on the Tracks".
cosign
lovesick and tweedle dee terrible openers to great albums
― corrs unplugged, Sunday, 13 November 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
It was used during a surfing sequence in the maligned John From Cincinnati
― Chris L, Sunday, 13 November 2022 17:09 (one year ago) link
Like both of these better than Thunder on the Mountain, especially the dueling guitars on tweedle dee.
― The Bankruptcy of the Planet of the Apes (PBKR), Sunday, 13 November 2022 18:17 (one year ago) link
Always assumed that everyone loves Lovesick (which I do)
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 13 November 2022 23:05 (one year ago) link
no
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2022 03:38 (one year ago) link
What's the problem with "Lovesick"? "Tangled Up in Blue" is the opener most often in my head.
― dow, Monday, 14 November 2022 05:35 (one year ago) link
I feel like it's a minor song, but what grates are the production choices, I don't like the heavy compression/eq'ing on the lead vocal, and I feel like musically not a lot's going on
with Tweedle Dee I feel like every track that follows is an improvement, it's an opener quite different from the rest of the songs... anyway, I tend to skip it
― corrs unplugged, Monday, 14 November 2022 11:11 (one year ago) link
fwiw I also feel that 'Lovesick' is a surprisingly slow-key, undynamic first track for one of the greatest LPs of the decade. The start, with that ... almost reggae? high rhythm guitar part, feels particularly thin. And the end feels quite botched!
'tweedle dee' is musically thrilling, I'd say, not so different from 'political world' but more orchestrated and 'song & dance man' fare.
― the pinefox, Monday, 14 November 2022 11:52 (one year ago) link
I meant low-key. Slow-key almost works.
If I had a controversial opinion on the topic it would be that 'like a rolling stone' is one of Dylan's worse LP openers. It's too long for the role, and less exciting, to me, than everyone always seems to have found it.
― the pinefox, Monday, 14 November 2022 11:53 (one year ago) link
whereas many others are superb: 'S H Blues', 'changing of the guard', 'if not for you' (but that's basically 'pop single as opener'?), 'tangled up in blue' for sure, 'hurricane' maybe but again too long, 'political world', 'tweedle dee', 'thunder on the mountain' yes - and indeed 'I contain multitudes' !! and even 'young at heart' on a covers LP - marvellous.
Also underrated in the role: 'tight connection to my heart'?
But I'm reminded that the worst Dylan LP opener has to be 'rainy day women' - the most overrated song of his life.
― the pinefox, Monday, 14 November 2022 11:56 (one year ago) link
"Tight Connection' is a superb opener.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2022 11:57 (one year ago) link
You folks are crazy, “Lovesick” opens the door to the thick night air perfectly. And the snare crack of “LaRS” is the shot that starts the revolution.
― assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 14 November 2022 12:29 (one year ago) link
'tweedle dee' is musically thrilling, I'd say, not so different from 'political world'totally agree, very similar, don't like political world
Tight Connection is the album highlight iirc
― corrs unplugged, Monday, 14 November 2022 12:31 (one year ago) link
here for the tweedle-dee love. such cool, demented lyrics and great drums
― Heez, Monday, 14 November 2022 16:19 (one year ago) link
"Love Sick" is a fine opener. At the time it felt like, "Hey, Bob's back! And he...doesn't suck! Huh!" (Those who heard "Wiggle Wiggle" on release day will understand.) But all live versions -- especially those with Bob soloing -- surpass it.
"Thunder," though, is easily my fave out of those three openers.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 14 November 2022 16:59 (one year ago) link
Wiggle Wiggle >>>>> Love Sick
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2022 17:14 (one year ago) link
I wouldn't use quite so many ">"s, but I also prefer "Wiggle Wiggle." (I'm not too into Time Out of Mind, tho)
― Reese's Pisces Iscariot (morrisp), Monday, 14 November 2022 17:20 (one year ago) link
Kenny Aronoff's drum roll in "Wiggle Wiggle" is the real thunder on the mountain
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2022 17:31 (one year ago) link
Love Kenny Aronoff! So hope he'll show up on the Never-Ending tour.he snare crack of “LaRS” is the shot that starts the revolution. Yeah, but after that I'm pretty much with pinefox--got tired of the monotonous, lecture-y delivery long ago (even though he later said, "Every time I say 'you' I mean 'I'"), It's the one track from that LP that doesn't play itself in my head on any given day---nothing necessarily against the song, though; I really like the Hendrix at Monterey Pop rendition.
― dow, Monday, 14 November 2022 17:33 (one year ago) link
As a character read, it's more effective for the shrewd, seemingly soft and off-handed phrasing.
― dow, Monday, 14 November 2022 17:35 (one year ago) link
That "Wiggle Wiggle" performance was the beginning of the decline of Aronoff's greatness. He was brilliant with Mellencamp -- his re-entrance in "Check It Out" is arguably the greatest moment in Mellencamp's oeuvre. But with Dylan and -- especially -- Fogerty, every snare hit sounds like a sales pitch as aggressive as it is ineffective.
I don't see Aronoff jumping back into Bob's band anytime soon, as Charley Drayton is beyond perfect for what Bob's doing now, and Bob seems to love him ("Boy, Charley's really something on the drums, isn't he?" -- Bob during the band introductions when I saw him a year ago).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 14 November 2022 17:48 (one year ago) link
I didn't realize it until much later, but when I saw Jerry Lee Lewis at Riot Fest, it was Aronoff on drums. Agree with Tarfumes, he's a loud, aggressive player. I don't think he'd be right for Dylan at this point. He was perfect for Mellencamp though.
― birdistheword, Monday, 14 November 2022 18:56 (one year ago) link
got tired of the monotonous, lecture-y delivery long ago
Now there's a controversial take! Not one I can agree with though.
― o. nate, Monday, 14 November 2022 19:13 (one year ago) link