Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

“ I don’t think the public wants to hear criticism of Trump right now,” said an informal adviser to Biden. https://t.co/dgWRcME7Pm

— Holly Otterbein (@hollyotterbein) March 27, 2020

oof please don't compel me to defend Biden--but come on, this tweet is less than 90 mins old:

It’s never a matter of if another pandemic will happen, it’s just a matter of when — and it’s the president’s job to ensure we’re ready.

Donald Trump's careless, shortsighted actions left our nation ill-prepared and now Americans are paying the price. https://t.co/45GVHtxUHA

— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) March 27, 2020

the sad, ugly, shitty truth is that even if I was 100% certain these allegations against Biden were true, I would still vote for him in November.

he's assaulted far less women than the other guy

on average he's less of an assaulter than the supreme court justices

the sad, ugly, shitty truth is that even if I was 100% certain these allegations against Biden were true, I would still vote for him in November.

― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, March 27, 2020 11:05 AM

I thought of Ralph Northam and how black voters were willing to endure him because the option was death.

The difference, of course, was Northam's admitting to the deed and apologizing.

Told the wife I wasn't planning on voting for Biden this year. She took it hard, of course. We work hard in our marriage to be able to communicate openly about important things, and this, I think, was part of that.

I can't hardly talk politics on the Internet at all, not so much because it upsets me but because my approach to electoral politics is apparently radically different from the politics most people discuss.

For one, I don't give a shit about candidates' platforms. It's not that I think they're lying to me. When Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay, I think he was sincere in that, that he really wanted to do it and failed. When I look at what is within the realm of possibility for any candidate to accomplish within the bounds of our current political system, well, I come up empty.

So I treat elections as if I am voting for a dictator. I also treat elections as if everything someone says today can change tomorrow, because it does. What I base my decisions on who to vote for, then, is based on values, personality, character, all of the things that the smarks of democracy tell us we should ignore.

Because my perception, and this is of course biased, flawed, limited, what have you, is that the political choice is not a question of rational assessment of outcomes versus "populism". I don't, frankly, see much of anyone being "rational" when it comes to national politics right now. I see it as a question of how flexible to be on one's personal values and principles, how much to give in the interests of the Tribe.

I'm not inflexible. Saying that I won't vote for Biden, that gets taken as a sign of radicalism, of petulantly demanding unattainable perfection from a candidate. I am perfectly willing to compromise, have in the past, will in the future.

I'm also afraid. I'm afraid because in 2016, every Republican in this country was tested, and they were, most of them, found wanting. They abandoned, totally and completely, everything they said they believed in. There were excuses, rationalizations. Either they were completely shamelessly amoral, or they are burying that shame deep inside, where it continues to slowly kill them. I don't think I'm the first. I'm afraid of the second.

I have to live with myself. At the end of the day, I have to live with myself, and that has been a long, hard struggle for me. I won't allow myself to vote for a candidate because they're the "lesser evil", because I've been shamed into going along with the tribe. I know the consequences of this. Expulsion. I don't want to be asked to leave. The people who are supporting Biden, I don't think they're all evil. These are people I care about, people, some of them, I have needed.

I just can't go along with the way things are being done anymore. I can't go along with burying misdeeds, I can't go along with the absolute mockery of the "democratic process" the primaries this year have been, I can't go along with being asked to be willing to support, if necessary, a billionaire blatantly attempting to purchase the most powerful political office in the country, because "he cares about the environment". All of this is not my responsibility, not within my power, and I will not accept the blame for it. I am saying "no", quietly, and walking away. I don't have any idea if I'm right or wrong, but it's my decision, it's not a rash one, and I stand behind it.

Sorry for the text dump. I didn't have anywhere else to put this. I haven't been reading, and won't be reading, this thread.

tbf you’re not saying “no” that quietly; you’re saying it with an overwrought wall of text.

He does an hour with Anderson Cooper on CNN tonight. As someone with serious reservations about whether he's up to a campaign, I'll be watching and thinking about that.

"campaign"--whatever that'll look like, or if there even is one.

Saw the interview in The Hill. The story changed again. I'm sorry, I don't believe this.

Reade is interviewed by Halper and co-host Taibbi, the latter with his own baggage. Now touching the neck (inappropriate, creepy; not what Brett Kavanaugh, Al Franken, and Trump were accused of) has changed to sexual assault. I'm dubious.

C'mon now.

Inconsistency and changing stories is practically a hallmark of victims' testimonial histories whenever shame and terror are involved, not to mention the memory-ravaging effects of PTSD, where this is present.

I've seen this first hand having represented political asylum seekers, several of them, incidentally, having suffered rape. *All* of my clients had been initially rejected by the Asylum Officer for contradictions and inconsistencies. I had physicians and psychologists conduct thorough evaluations, and *all* found ample evidence of injuries and disorders consistent with the petitioners' claims of torture and rape. *All* of them ultimately obtained asylum.

And believe me, their inconsistencies, changing stories, and lacunae drove me crazy as well, since I had to help them stick to a consistent testimony for their affidavits and court appearances. But I learned very quickly that it was that such was the very nature of the fabric we were dealing with.

Yes, but she is reading from notes, and still getting the story wrong.

"wrong"

Of course she is reading from notes. You likely would as well, knowing how much was at stake, and not trusting yourself to provide a consistent narrative. And what do you mean, "getting the story wrong"? You have no idea what the actual story is. She might not either, apart from the core events.

She told the story to Katie Halper. Then she tells the exact same story to Krystal Ball, consulting notes, and it's still not the same story.

You really lack a very basic understanding of memory, Fred, particularly memory that struggles to be accessed through a fog of shame, fear, and just garden-variety human forgetfulness.

I know that stories change over time, I studied History in college. I also know that a lot of people make up stories about the past. And this has all the hallmarks of a made up story. Sorry.

collardio, have you checked the interviews?

I listened to the Katie Halper one, not the Krystal Ball.

But I'll check that one out too.

I'll treat this Biden stuff as more serious when I see some reporting on it from an actual outlet I trust (WaPo, the Hill, the Chronicle, the LA Times, etc.)

I posted the video upthread, but I think that's already 50+ messages ago.

cool thread

I haven't seen anyone as invested as Fred in completely discounting a sexual assault accusation since September 2018.

the Hill huh

@milo: That says more about how little you must care about these stories, tbh

I want "memory that struggles to be accessed through a fog of shame, fear, and just garden-variety human forgetfulness." and "I studied History in college" as poll options

I'm still looking forward to voting for Bernie in the Oregon primary in May. If I live so long. November is an eternity from now.

tbf you’re not saying “no” that quietly; you’re saying it with an overwrought wall of text.

Were you skeptical of @theintercept and @ryangrim when they broke the story about Kavanaugh sexually assaulting Christine Blasey Ford? Did you raise your reservations about them then? https://t.co/U7OxtbMY6j

— Katie Halper (@kthalps) March 27, 2020

Anyone refusing to acknowledge this by downplaying the veracity of a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter who broke the Kavanaugh story AND the Rob Porter allegations just because he didn't do it on your favorite corporate owned media conglomerate's subscription-paywalled publication is a clown. One who probably never gave the slightest damn about actually believing women who risk their livelihood, privacy, and sanity to come forward with allegations and stories like this at all.

TheIntercept broke all journalistic rules with the Kavanaugh story as well, though. Bringing an accusation without the accuser being on board is an incredibly shitty look.

i think this is going to stick to biden, honestly. people of my generation and younger, especially younger, already hate him. and the thing they hate most is white male entitlement.

whether or not this is true. i have no idea. he has issues with personal space and boundaries that show he has a condescending and paternalistic attitude toward women. that is clear. but before it wasn't totally clear if this was a sexual thing. if this becomes more substantiated it will put decades of behavior that is ALREADY BAD in a much, much worse light.

your favorite corporate owned media conglomerate's subscription-paywalled publication

yeah, it's so shitty to expect people to pay for good journalism.

the intercept ran a story about time's up's response to biden's accuser, not a story about the accusation itself. but apparently some ppl think it's disrespectful to even bother to try to vet these stories as opposed to just running with them, i guess.

i think this is going to stick to biden, honestly. people of my generation and younger, especially younger, already hate him. and the thing they hate most is white male entitlement.

― treeship., Friday, March 27, 2020 2:09 PM

That's true, seen most often on ILE political threads that are not this one.

i think it is absolutely insane that this is the person we ended up with. the guy who says he has "no sympathy" for millennials. the guy who sniffs women's hair. in 2020 it's insanity.

I agree with that.

But I just have to comment on this:

whether or not this is true. i have no idea. he has issues with personal space and boundaries that show he has a condescending and paternalistic attitude toward women. that is clear. but before it wasn't totally clear if this was a sexual thing. if this becomes more substantiated it will put decades of behavior that is ALREADY BAD in a much, much worse light.

That when Tara Reade told that other story about a year ago, she explicitly wrote, more than once, that her story wasn't about something 'sexual'.

yeah, i mean, i think he thinks of women as children, basically.

which is really bad and gross in its own right. but before this, i didn't tag him as a predator. just like, a drunken shopping mall santa clause from 1964.

Again, treeship, Tara Reade, the woman who now tells the story about Biden being a predator, said a year ago that he wasn't a predator. That is one of the reasons I doubt she is telling the truth now.

there is just no way to know. she could be an inconsistent person who lies sometimes but then this time is telling the truth.

or she could simply... oh never mind...

fred did u take the same attitude toward women who followed that pattern re Cosby and Weinstein?

Absolutely, yes.

Although each and every accuser there was much more believable than this one.

And those journalists did an incredibly job getting those stories beyond 'there is just no way to know'. That's what journalists should do.

The overwhelming number of accusations in regard to Cosby and Weinstein contributed greatly to the overwhelming credibility of the picture the accusers painted. At this point, the mass of stories about Biden agree in describing his thoughtless invasion of women's personal space, but not outright criminality. If further accusations arise, that general profile of his conduct would need to be re-evaluated.