Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

here's one though

First off, this is obviously a lie. But even if it wasn't a lie, it means Biden heard this story, kept it in his heart, and then voted for the Defense of Marriage Act anyway. https://t.co/iSJgn1QDlz

— John-Michael Bond (@BondJohnBond) March 28, 2020

how could anyone be this stu--oh pic.twitter.com/MrsNotaeqC

— Cari Hernandez (@eatinginmycar) March 29, 2020

While I'd love to see Bernie's campaign revive itself, with him continuing on to be the nominee then president, insisting that Joe Biden as evil scum whom no one should ever vote for is not going to accomplish that. Demolishing Biden's reputation only results in diminishing him down to a figure of scorn, but it does not and cannot build up Bernie or win him votes.

Bernie's supporters were admirable when they thought they had a chance to win. They threw themselves into it heart and soul, canvassed, phone banked, and cheered him on. They were inspired and it was inspiring. This new phase of constant personal attacks on Biden is just dismal and disheartening. Why do this, if it doesn't get you any closer to anything you actually want?

Demolishing Biden's reputation only results in diminishing him down to a figure of scorn, but it does not and cannot build up Bernie or win him votes.

This is true and also a non sequitur; scorning Biden for his record and his ineptitude is worthy in and of itself.

Just as a reminder: someone will be president in 2021-2024. This is inescapable and who it is has consequences. your feelings of superior rectitude are nice, but try scorning him silently, OK? You'll reap all the benefits of self-congratulation without all the undesirable political fallout. Unless, ofc, you desire having to live under the Trump/Stephen Miller policies for another 4 years. I can assure you, POC sure as hell don't give a shit about your rectitude.

This is true and also a non sequitur; scorning Biden for his record and his ineptitude is worthy in and of itself.

― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic)

Sure, if you're twelve. He's been an imbecile or worse for the length of my years. When he gets the nomination, I'll turn into one of Trump's minions in 2016, never allowing a single moment of doubt because #Florida.

I honestly don't think that being annoyed in this thread, on a niche message board, over the fact that the Democratic Party is pushing someone with a bad brain and a bad record is going to affect significant numbers of voters in Alaska, Wisconsin, Puerto Rico, Oregon, Kansas, Nebraska, West Virginia, Georgia, Hawaii, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Indiana, Maryland, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, the southernmost Dakota, Louisiana, Kentucky, or New York, or caucusers in Wyoming, Guam, or the Virgin Islands, let alone each of them.

I'm not saying you are personally responsible for tens of millions of voters, small things get amplified and the digital world has no boundaries. Think of it as a 'butterfly effect'. Contributing to the chorus of snideness, anger, scorn and righteousness makes its voice reach further and further. Repetition adds more strength. The habit of making nasty comments every time Biden is mentioned is a social act. The more you do it, the more acceptable and normal it becomes.

Or you can just excuse yourself and say nothing you do matters so you can do whatever your feelings tell you to do, aka "nyah nyah".

reminder that fifteen years of the digitally unbounded "Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank" thread has yet to curtail his national rise, and also I actually would very much prefer that the voters and caucusers in those territories would vote for his opponent.

if I thought that this thread which is designed to say that Joe Biden sucks had shown any chance of such influence to date, I would make clear, detailed, and heartfelt pleas to those voters to consider the past actions and policies of the two candidates, instead of occasionally venting in it about Joe Biden sucking, to someone who posted fifteen years ago that he has been rendered incapable of reason by the apparatus of power around him.

the more people suggest that Biden is a legitimate choice for POTUS the more acceptable and normal it becomes, tragically

The habit of making nasty comments every time Biden is mentioned is a social act. The more you do it, the more acceptable and normal it becomes.

I actually would very much prefer that the voters and caucusers in those territories would vote for his opponent.

May I remind you that when I said:

"Demolishing Biden's reputation only results in diminishing him down to a figure of scorn, but it does not and cannot build up Bernie or win him votes."

Your response was: "This is true..."

If I felt I could affect voters across the pond I'd be on this thread Fred B style day and night telling people to stay home!

I refer the honorable gentleman to the sentence that follows the first quote, and also to the clause that follows the second quote.

It's too late, and if you're in a swing state you vote for the gibbering old man.

Sanders won't be nominated

I prefer to see Biden retire and another choice be made

BECAUSE BIDEN WILL LOSE

It's important to get a head start on making Joe Biden a figure of scorn even if he manages to accidentally win in November, because he will be a poor president

Trump will run the creepy videos of him and make fun of his coherence and it’ll be a fucking bloodbath.

Yep. I can't imagine it going any other way tbh.

Actually think Biden will win as the bodies pile up over spring and summer.

the good news is since I'm basically resigned to this outcome if the uh 25% of elderly Biden voters who are enthusiastic about him put together a solid ground game in Michigan then hey, I will get the faintly pleasant surprise of Trump being defeated, but I don't expect it.

and there's always a chance that us posting that only bad outcomes are possible and that Joe Biden is a miserable predatory old fuck motivates someone else to work harder for Joe Biden because of the obvious headwinds he faces!

you never know what posting will accomplish

anyway Jay Inslee will be 73 in 2024, maybe that'll be old enough to capture America's imagination

if we're still having elections then

fifteen years of the digitally unbounded "Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank" thread has yet to curtail his national rise

This is quite true. First he rose from being a senator to being a senator. Then he rose to being the VP on a ticket that no one voted for because he was on the ticket. After which he rose to th exalted position of retired politician for four years.

I'm not worried specifically about any one person posting here having any directly perceptible individual effect on the 2020 election. I'm still going to vote for Bernie, even if he has 'suspended' his campaign by the time my primary is held. But every trend I see suggests Biden is going to walk off with the nomination and be Trump's opponent. I am doing what I can about that, but I assume that won't be enough to stop Biden winning.

What I am suggesting is that within the universe of active, vocal Bernie supporters there is an echo chamber effect and what I am hearing in this thread is a reverberation from that echo chamber, and from everything I can see here, the attitude of "scorning Biden is its own reward" and reflexively dissing him at every turn is becoming the primary Discourse among those vocal active followers, the so-called BernieBros. And they aren't going to drop that habit just because Biden comes out of the convention as the nominee. My perception is they will reinforce one another in an attitude frequently expressed by morbs: a pox on both their houses, or both parties are no different from one another, or voting for Biden would be a betrayal of all I stand for, etc.

And they will congratulate one another on their rectitude and stay away from voting, or vote some third party. And maybe that will be fine, if the race isn't all that close. But recent elections suggest that votes do count and turnout is critical. And fuck it if self-righteousness puts Trump back into office, after all the RESIST bumper stickers have faded to illegibility.

All I'm suggesting is that stepping back from the cheap satisfaction of participating in that echo chamber has merit, because the tune you practice most is the one you'll sing when the show opens.

I think Biden is bad with substantially more conviction and fervor than I think Sanders is good fwiw

I’m not acting here as a Bernie Sanders supporter I’m just pointing out that Joe Biden is bad, yknow? Not fit for the presidency.

yes, but when Sanders becomes irrelevant to who is president in 2021, that conviction and fervor will not get you to a Sanders presidency.

But you’re right that plenty of people will argue that there’s no difference between the two parties (taken in aggregate) and they have some plausible reasons to say so.

why does everybody keep capitalizing Discourse, is it a record label

I’m not a consequentialist Aimless. The moral tightness of things is independent of and prior to their effects. Specifically it’s morally correct to drag Joe Biden for sucking shit.

it's an ironic capitalization

Wow omg “moral tightness” wtf autocorrect

I’m not a consequentialist Aimless.

Then why on earth do you even think about politics?

Uh these are different things

expand, plz

I mean I can be found elsewhere on this borad arguing that a vote isn’t a moral speech act but

I can still prefer or desire certain ends to collective political action without believing that those ends are morally right, or that the preferability or rightness of those ends justifies any given means.

Like the utilitarian argument for voting for the Democrat is generally “fewer people will suffer if you vote for the Democrat” but this has notably failed to ignite the passions of the people in recent memory

a conscious act of omission is as much an act as one of commission. if you have practical desires which are morally neutral, but otherwise beneficial in some respect, then it is practical to choose the action which is best suited to produce your desired ends, or as many as are practicable.

people post about whether the Beatles are good or bad on this borad too

A lot of actions it is functionally impossible to know the effects of, such as posting on a messageboard

Other than, I guess, annoying people

I imagine that if Biden wins in November that the best way for the Democrats to avoid midterm losses in 22 will be to run against Biden.

But you’re right that plenty of people will argue that there’s no difference between the two parties (taken in aggregate) and they have some plausible reasons to say so.

― silby, Sunday, March 29, 2020 5:53 P

You can say this if you're 11 years old or drool. Biden or a stand-in will vote for the judges/justices I want and name hands to regulatory agencies better than any Republican. If this isn't enough, sorry, we can't talk.

I mean if I take my posting hat off I probably agree with you but even for plenty of genuine non-drooling adults “judges and regulators” are somewhat remote arguments, relative to ppl’s urgent need to get out from under the thumb of rent, health insurance, and corporate dissolution of civic live. You can’t say “judges and the EPA!” to counter Joe Biden saying he’d veto medicare for all if it reached his desk. Maybe you can, and I just follow a lot of 20 and 30something communists on twitter. But, yet.

yet guess what -- it fires up GOP voters. And the results are the same. We need justices, judges, and regulators.

Sounds like the choice for progressive pressure groups in the general should be to run ads calling Biden stupid and pliable.

“He’ll do what we say because he is the sucking wound in the chest of our democracy and we’ll stand there and holler at him for you”