outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

do they also... stop being infected again afterwards, in time?

(ok the article says it's probably unlikely that they'll get it or that they'll transmit it, so hopefully it won't come to that, but, great, a new thing to worry about)

Textbook example of the classic "is it worse if he's lying or telling the truth" dilemma.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/02/governor-brian-kemp-georgia-coronavirus-sanjay-gupta-anderson-cooper-nr-vpx.cnn

wtfffffffff. It's not even like that's a trait unique to this virus.

WOW.

that is amazing. for those that haven't clicked, the gov of georgia, Brian Kemp, says he just learned within the last 24 hours that coronavirus can be spread before people show symptoms. and that's why he's doing the more strict containment measures, now.

just, holy shit.

as the CNN medical corresponded noted, the CDC is IN ATLANTA

the Peter Dumbass Principle for guvs

Third story on NPR hourly news:

They're making a bobblehead of Fauci.

NY state is considering the option of putting two patients on the same ventilator. This is taking roommate culture to new territory.

Here is where linguistic nuance comes to the rescue. Gov. Brian Kemp was told that coronavirus can be spread before people show symptoms repeatedly in the past several weeks, but he only learned this in the past 24 hours.

lol

give a man a symptoms can be spread asymptomatically and he'll spread asymptomatically for a day. teach a man symptoms can be spread asymptomatically and he'll symptoms asymptomatically for a lifetime

xp: TBF, everyone on mechanical ventilators is sedated to not care, and on muscle relaxants to inhibit voluntary movement. Think of it as being roommates with someone who shares a K-hole obsession. You might notice them once a week.

AFAICT, the main limitation on multiple patients/ventilator is that everyone has to share similar lung tidal volume. Children with children, big men with big men...

Children with children, big men with big men...

Thank goodness children are the cohort least affected by the infection.

NY state is considering the option of putting two patients on the same ventilator. This is taking roommate culture to new territory.

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 2, 2020 1:09 PM (thirty-four minutes ago)

glanced at something earlier that said that NYC will run out of available ventilators in <8 days.

six more days https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/02/new-york-ventilators-coronavirus-andrew-cuomo

been looking for places who are making masks and selling them to subsidize production of masks to donate. So far I've only found Hedley and Bennet, who have a factory that usually makes chef aprons and have switched over to making fabric masks: https://www.hedleyandbennett.com/pages/wakeupandfightmask

NY state is considering the option of putting two patients on the same ventilator. This is taking roommate culture to new territory.
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 2, 2020 1:09 PM (thirty-four minutes ago)

glanced at something earlier that said that NYC will run out of available ventilators in <8 days.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, April 2, 2020 1:45 PM (forty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

friend is a nurse in the nhs and was already briefed a week or so ago that they would be arriving at a stage where they would run out of ventilators and people who were over 65 and with comorbidities would not be given one

A cousin of mine runs a US-based factory that makes cushions. They are making masks in order to keep their doors open: https://fallrivermask.com/

Marine Layer is allowing you to just buy a bunch of masks for essential workers: https://www.marinelayer.com/products/ml-mask-donation-2020-v1

this seems … new, at least from these sources

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/aerosol-coronavirus-spread-white-house-letter/index.html

I've sort of assumed this would be the case, they're not telling us to keep 2 meters away from each other in case we put our hands in each other's mouths

i ordered a balaclava mask today

Honey is natures' disinfectant.

I should've bought stock in the temporary signs/banners industry. Every restaurant has a STILL OPEN! CURBSIDE TAKEOUT banner now.

There are enough caveats and hedge words in that CNN piece to drive a person insane. Right down to the doctor who says he's going to wear a mask to the store, but "I'm not going to wear a surgical mask, because clinicians need those."

What happened to not taking ibuprofen, is that still a thing? Was that ever a thing? Was that ever based on more than one small sample group study, if not just a tweet?

So much for RADM Crozier.

The commander of a US aircraft carrier that has been hit by a major outbreak of coronavirus has been relieved of command days after writing a memo warning Navy leadership that decisive action was needed to save the lives of the ship's crew.

Shouldn't make your president look bad, sorry your crew is dying.

An aircraft carrier, a cruise ship, same difference. Big floating box of sick people. Can't have that. Loojs bad.

Looks

Won't anyone think about the numbers?

Here is where linguistic nuance comes to the rescue. Gov. Brian Kemp was told that coronavirus can be spread before people show symptoms repeatedly in the past several weeks, but he only learned this in the past 24 hours.

― A is for (Aimless)

Kemp complained, "How could I have known?! Why didn't anybody tell m....I mean, make me learn?!"

i tell you, we will get to the bottom of who refused to make me learn

Weren't there viral (oh that poor word) photos from January of people dying on the streets of Wuhan? I remember some shot of a man on the floor of a subway car and the other riders all backed up away from him.

At the time, it seemed so much more instantaneous than two weeks, but maybe I've been fooled by the internet again.

This is stunning. It appears deaths are being dramatically undercounted in Spain and Italy. pic.twitter.com/O6R4gOhu4M

— Ben Judah (@b_judah) April 2, 2020

Maybe, maybe not...but if debate in the comments. The methodology will be debated for a long time

I'm starting to settle into a resigned pessimism about this. The US is dysfunctional and incapable of doing the things that experts say would make the most difference -- universal lockdown, widespread testing, etc. A vaccine will take a long time, and in the meantime any treatment improvements will be piecemeal/patchwork. Jared Fucking Kushner is "coordinating" our federal effort, i.e. there is no coordination. New York is doing at least a serviceable job, but it started far too late and meanwhile there are still 10 or so states that aren't doing shit. I think this is going to be longer and more deadly than we are being told right now. And the potential economic contagion just boggles my mind.

I agree with all that, about the USA. And it's not the deadliness of this disease that's most on my mind; it's its consequences for the American economy, by which I don't mean GDP or really anything particularly quantitative, but rather, how the way Americans have to live, the way Americans lives are structured (housing, health care, education): that's "the economy", and the depth of the disruption to that has hardly begun to sink in.

The problem in the US is not just that there never was a plan but that there still is no plan, as such, and no indication the government is competent enough to come up with a plan. But I really doubt most if any countries have a real plan, either, and that's sort of what's both frightening and disheartening about the whole ordeal. Whenever this is done it will be far from done, and when it gets to the economic recovery stage, whenever that happens, we're going to see some real bullshit on a monumental scale, and I have no idea what the world will look like when the bullshit dries.

The USA has almost no national solidarity (the emptiness of troop worship is as close as it gets), and that deprives the nation of even conceiving of "a plan", by which, how to move past this crisis. The American plan will be "how things were before", and for the millions whose jobs will never be the same (if they have jobs at all), what was before will never be again. And what for them? We know the answer.

Hey America, fuck you x2:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6772979/coronavirus-3m-n95-respirators-trump-canada/

Sweden now has 6x the deaths that Norway does (308 vs 50). Both had their first case the same day. Norway locked down early + Sweden still hasn't. Sweden tracking Italy at the moment. https://t.co/7QMYtrua0P

— Sam Freedman (@Samfr) April 3, 2020

I dunno, I'm just a lowly layman, but I've read enough history to know how disruptive/catastrophic outbreaks and pandemics have been in the past, kinda feels like this should just be part and parcel of national disaster preparedness. Incompetence is definitely playing a role in the limpid response, but there's definitely an element of anencephalic hubris, as well. Like, something like this could never happen to us. Even though it totally has.

It's a prelude to the time when climate change starts to well and truly kick our ass, I guess. Just keep kicking that can down the road and react with shock and amazement when you find that you've run out of road.

it's not the deadliness of this disease that's most on my mind; it's its consequences for the American economy, by which I don't mean GDP or really anything particularly quantitative, but rather, how the way Americans have to live, the way Americans lives are structured (housing, health care, education): that's "the economy", and the depth of the disruption to that has hardly begun to sink in.

This may be a better topic for the "how we live now" thread but we are definitely reinforcing that there are about three broad groups of workers:

- Service-sector workers and essential-industry workers who have been "lucky" enough to keep working, but at the risk of their lives (and significant psychic wear and tear).
- Workers whose jobs have simply vanished. The financial consequences of losing months/years of income will continue to dog them; some will never recover even when demand returns.
- White-collar knowledge workers who can work from home, and whose salaries continue to arrive. Their problems are real but may seem trivial to the other groups.

started wearing a mask during my daily walk to central park.

can hardly breathe in this and my glasses fog up.

This will require a level of financial intervention and economic reconstruction the likes of which none of us have seen before. I'm not sure our current financial system is well-equipped to do that at all.

i disagree w/ the "risk of their lives" argument. they're taking precautions and most essential workers are not at-risk groups. most wfh are staying home to protect vulnerable people, not to protect their own lives.

Jared Fucking Kushner is "coordinating" our federal effort, i.e. there is no coordination.

i agree with a lot of man alive's pessimism, and it is depressing that jared fucking kushner is involved at all. i thought he was working on wrapping up that middle east peace deal that was so promising??

but he's not "coordinating" the federal effort. deborax birx is. Kushner gets to stand nearby and try to take the credit for being the dealmaker and the person behind the scenes who makes things happen, but that doesn't mean that everyone is _actually_ expecting him to do anything or lead anything. he's just another rich guy/member of the trump family who will try to leap in at various moments, when he feels it's advantageous to himself. if birx and fauci and others manage to convince dipshit republican governors to save the lives of their own people (didn't work with medicaid expansion, which is still sitting there on the table for dozens of states, iirc), then trump and family will of course take full credit in the end. and if the response continues to fail, eventually trump and family will blame everyone else except for themselves, while claiming that if things were done their way it would have been the best response in the world, and vowing to never again cede leadership to "experts". they've done this stuff since day one

This will require a level of financial intervention and economic reconstruction the likes of which none of us have seen before. I'm not sure our current financial system is well-equipped to do that at all.

― Matt DC, Friday, April 3, 2020 10:52 AM (forty-nine seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

not to be a starry-eyed idiot, but maybe this is a good thing. the system wasn't working. this is proof that it doesn't work -- it ran up against a hard limit. but this is the type of crisis that will pass -- unlike climate. maybe we will wake up to the fact that serious changes are needed, that tomorrow won't be like yesterday and we need to prepare for it.

Cases in Austin seemed to be coming in at a stable daily level for about a week, which made me think we were successfully flattening the curve, but last few days, the daily numbers have started to jump up. Not sure if that means actual cases are accelerating or if we are just getting a bit better at testing. I wish there were clearer indications of what's happening at hospitals, how many people are calling in with symptoms, and how many tests are being done, instead of just a daily official number.

i disagree w/ the "risk of their lives" argument. they're taking precautions and most essential workers are not at-risk groups. most wfh are staying home to protect vulnerable people, not to protect their own lives.

i disagree with your disagreement, heh. i do think think they're risking their lives. their risk is certainly much higher than my own right now. i am a white collar derp worker, working from home. grocery store check-out people are standing there 2 feet away from people, all day, including customers who think the whole thing is a hoax and aren't taking any personal protections of their own. they can wear a mask and gloves, but they are significantly more at risk than me, while also getting paid much less. it's total bullshit