social and moral dilemmas in the reign of COVID 19th of its name

Like some people (and you may like them!) don't want advice, they don't want conversation, they just want an audience. And everyone is going through their own shit and has their own different methods of working through it, so I think it's fine to figure out the best time to be that audience for both of you.

my life now, my social circle, is full of people who have really intense emotional needs which are not always easily met. i hesitate to give advice after all that awful fight over "emotional labor" last year, but you are, unquestionably, overburdened and overstressed. yes, it's ok for you to politely put them off. it's also ok for them to be upset at not being able to get the emotional support they feel they need. reconciling those two perspectives can be a challenge to any relationship.

guys is it okay to correct someone who incorrectly states that it’s called covid-19 because it’s the 19th instance of covid rather than because it was named in 2019

When people have been saying CV, I still think they are talking about resumes for 5 seconds.

Actually, it's Frankenstein's Coronavirus

i talked to them and they were calling to say they'd gone home from work feeling extremely dizzy -- might be a CV symptom, might be anxiety, might be who knows -- and planned to stay off for a while to see how things go, just in case, bcz this is the "wrong time to be a hero". this explains the time of day, which had thrown me a little tbh. i know they way prefer being in work with stuff to do to being home (where they live alone, as do i). anyway i don't think my not picking up and then calling back was an issue, and i explained the deadline thing. i imagine i'll be talking to them more often over the next few days but that's fine.

Ok, something I've been wondering. Lots of my friends and family members are posting lots of things about how it's ok not to get anything done during this time, that you shouldn't embark on any great projects, just keep working on staying calm and sane.

I have a complete 180-degree idea about this - I need to be taking on big creative projects all the time, it's what I do and it's what keeps me going. And selfishly I feel like I'm being judged for being like this, especially now, and more so - I feel annoyed that instead of saying reasonably "stop taking advice from people on the internet on how to live your life" they are just taking somebody else's advice and reversing it. Well meaning as it is, I don't want people telling me what kind of behaviour to engage in, especially when they are not qualified to give any advice.

So my question is "can I tell them to quit it with this stuff?" and obviously the answer is "no, leave it alone, it isn't for you, it's also generally nbd and not worth engaging with" and my answer is "ok, I'll vent about it on here instead." So here we are.

yeah, I hate shit like that^^^. I find it condescending but I typically just keep quiet because I figure it's more helpful and for the person saying/posting it than me.

how would u approach informing a good not bad internet poster that the last thing we needed was another politics thread, but a close second was another thread for covid posting

Start an "Ask (insert poster's name)" thread.

Surprised we haven't seen an RIP Boris Johnson thread yet

don’t wanna jinx it

When it happens I’m gonna break it to everyone I know by texting “have I got news for you”

Ok, something I've been wondering. Lots of my friends and family members are posting lots of things about how it's ok not to get anything done during this time, that you shouldn't embark on any great projects, just keep working on staying calm and sane.

I agree 100% with the very last bit of this. The caveat being that everyone has their own means of staying calm and sane and those means are not necessarily the same employed by everyone else. So, yeah, if plunging into a huge project does the trick, eff the haters. I've found that alternating between bouts of intense activity and complete inertia is my personal cup o' quaran-tea.

really you should just work on not feeling judged there imo

intercept all projection affecting you as early as possible in the process of it affecting you kind of thing

My general rule is that I can't stop feelings from arising, because they arise from a place outside my conscious control, but I can stop myself from believing they are accurate reflections of outer reality. They can only tell me how I'm feeling, nothing more.

so my nice downstairs neighbours are doing a big shop tomorrow and just asked if i needed anything, is it OK to ask for pre-grated cheese and not expect secretly to be judged

i wd judge you

i AM judging you

Just split the difference: ask them to buy you ungrated cheese and then to grate it for you.

You could get them to grate it through the letterbox, just wedge the cheesegrater in there and put a tupperware box underneath, problem solved.

c&ping here as more appropriate:

Another one for the new moral quandries pile: the wife thinks we should go out to buy essentials when we need them, as opposed to sending for delivery, as a) this way we are running the risks, not paying someone else to (we are both able bodied, young, well off) and b) we are not depleting the stock of orders that ppl w/ less mobility than us rely on. This flies in the face of govt advice, tho frankly the govt's gotten it wrong so many times now and also is unlikely to care about the fates of the proles who deliver shopping. The only other thing I could think of is that if we go out that means more ppl are out and that means higher risk of contagion for the delivery person, who will be picking stuff up from the same places we go to. Thoughts?

― Daniel_Rf,Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:37 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

That delivery person isn't going to stop circulating because he didn't have to come to your house. Working for the greater good means staying at home and reducing the chances of your becoming a vector.

― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII),Quinta-feira, 16 de Abril de 2020 13:16 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I had no idea Deliveroo picked up supermarket shopping. Can't use it where I am anyway.

― kinder,Quinta-feira, 16 de Abril de 2020 13:24 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

It’s no longer complicated to me. If the demand is outpacing the supply of delivery spots, the most vulnerable and the literally quarantined people need it more. Only use those services if those populations are able to get what they require. Two week+ waiting times for slots tells me that is not happening here, so I’m carefully going to the store, but as infrequently as we’re able to manage. If more availability opens up as capacity rises, that’ll be the time I stay away too.

― Kim,Quinta-feira, 16 de Abril de 2020 13:35 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

so a slightly smaller dilemma, but also who knows, it could literally be life or death to someone: while I have surgical masks now (the rectangular kind), I am very, very bad at tying them, especially behind the back of my head, resulting in a loose fit/one that needs adjusting, both of which are bad and maybe even make them totally useless. (it isn't just masks -- I suck at fiddly ties in general, at pulling up zippers behind my back, etc. should I be practicing on something? if so, what?

I have this problem too (my big stupid hair getting in the way doesn’t help) but mine is not a surgical mask, it’s a T-shirt I cut up on the basis that two bits of fabric and a paper towel is better than nothing ito preventing aerosols getting from me to someone else. I don’t think it’s doing much of anything for me as such so I figure the fit doesn’t have to be perfect, just good enough

This has probably been covered in a million posts on Medium (and it definitely says something about me that none of my algorithms serve them up to me) but what’s up if you have a girlfriend? Or boyfriend? You’re not supposed to visit each other, right?

That is what’s up

Dang

for masks that have two sets of ties, I like the top one to rest on the top-back of my head so it pulls up and across my cheekbones.

try doing that with the BOTTOM tie. gamechanger

This has probably been covered in a million posts on Medium (and it definitely says something about me that none of my algorithms serve them up to me) but what’s up if you have a girlfriend? Or boyfriend? You’re not supposed to visit each other, right?

― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand),Thursday, April 16, 2020 10:02 AM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think it's likely that lots of people who are dating have decided to cohabitate during this time. I was thinking about this, probably some awkward situations. like people who were on different wavelengths regarding their relationships. one person wanting to cohabitate and the other person being happy to see the person after this is over. or people moving in together and then driving each other crazy within days.

Totally!

If I'd known of this thread earlier I'd have posted this:

When you friend pops by your garden the day before his Dad's funeral and tells you he Was surprised they let him in to see him on his last day and how flimsy and useless the PPE apron he wore was and how he hasn't had any symptoms himself yet...

How do you appear appropriately sympathetic while backing away while the voice in your head screams GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME?

*curb theme*

I like the impression that Tracer has adopted the french lifestyle

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/27/can-my-husband-see-his-mistress-french-police-receive-bizarre-lockdown-questions

Should I be feeling slightly bad about ordering CDs or is it basically fine to good?

feel like we could do a whole thread just on that...
support the economy / dying physical media / desperate sellers vs. endangering postal and other workers for non-essential items

Telling myself that CDs are light and basically letters. So the postal services are prioritising as they deem appropriate now.

So = also. Either me or my phone is totally failing at typing.

What is everyone’s experience with begging now that nobody carries cash and we are not supposed to go near each other?

I was approached by a guy the other day and it just so happened that I did have cash on me so I gave it to him, all fine. My dilemma (such as it is) was that he was one of these guys who has a really long rehearsed story about why he needs exactly 6.52 - normally I just listen to the story even though we both know it’s untrue because it would be rude to cut them off but this time I was quite tempted to interrupt and say “yeah fine whatever” just to not have someone in my space for 5 minutes.

I think it's more important for them to get money than to be allowed to go through their story all the way through, I imagine it's a miserable experience for them too.

It has changed for me in that I almost never carry cash anymore, I need to remember to take some for these instances.

Question for UK posters (or perhaps specifically Scotland-based posters): do you think we're now at a stage where it's safe/responsible to take reusable bags with you to shops again? Or still best to wait a bit longer?

Hadn't even considered that tbh - I've always taken them. Mine sit unused for >1 week so should never be a problem?

I have always been using reusable bags in shops, not going to put my hands on those trolleys / baskets if at all possible.

find a big shop with a policy and do what they do

my regular grocer has banned reusable bags for the time being

here (Ontario) reusable bags are once again fine as long as you pack em yourself

I've been just buying the 5p bags but the staff in my local shop have been wearing gloves, I'm happy to take them home and I can re-use them when the time is right

Never stopped bringing my own bag. Don't understand why you wouldn't pack your own stuff.

The very act of being in the store is probably more dangerous than what you do and don't do with your bags, although I'm not one to talk as we've been getting literally everything delivered for months now. I haven't been particularly worried about the bags they turn up in (and we've been keeping them anyway to throw other stuff away in - and as hand protection in communal areas of the building).

If you are worried about this then surely washable fabric bags are the best solution?

The scares about surface contact transmission seem to have gone down, though I don't know if just everyone giving up or not.

I finally tried out the self-quick-scan-as-you-shop thingy, to avoid anyone else handling the products, packing as I go round the shop. V good although obviously I had to hold the shop's handheld scanner the whole time, and press buttons on scales, but I'm fairly aware of not touching face etc when out shopping anyway.

Thanks everyone, that's helpful. Thinking about it I can see that if the bags are sitting unused for a few days in between shop trips then it shouldn't be a problem. I would always pack them myself anyway.
Hopefully this hasn't added another aspect of things for anyone to worry over (should have considered before posting really).

So, how much money can I spend on frivolous entertainment before I'm an irrdeemable monster? Because I'm feeling... a little addicted.

I mean. Send a little bit more than that amount to bail funds and you’re golden I think.

Lot of this about rn

Feels like a lot of people round here are kinda blindsided to be at this point post-vaccine (booster even) and still finding themselves having to do this kind of calculus, can I justify seeing my friends AND my family this Christmas &c

Reading reports out of NYC and Chicago it's really sounding like we're all about to be exposed whether we are ready or not, so get double vaxxed, boosted and hang on to your butts I guess.

the certainty of exposure feels even worse because of both the higher infectiousness of the virus and generally laxer standards of behavior

good news is that when vaxxed/boosted you're much less likely to die, so, shrug

I was REALLY looking forward to seeing Jeff Parker tonight, and the venue requires proof of vax…but it’s also a bar/restaurant, so presumably few will be masked, so I decided not to go. Super bummed about it, but I just feel like a packed mostly-unmasked show isn’t a good idea right now.

the certainty of exposure feels even worse because of both the higher infectiousness of the virus and generally laxer standards of behavior

good news is that when vaxxed/boosted you're much less likely to die, so, shrug

I'm seeing a lot of "we're all going to get it eventually, so there's no point in attempting to reduce any risk to myself or my contacts whatsoever". which I do understand, but also, there is still value in putting off when you get it, if possible, and especially this close to Christmas. (and many people only newly/ not yet boosted).

i always thought regular testing would be one way through this but it looks like it's getting hard to test frequently enough.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of "well fuck it, let's go nuts" posts and tweets but I wonder how much of that is just people working through their frustrations and disappointments by the news. We're going to lock things down a little more, not that we've been doing much that would require a ratcheting down of anything, but I think we're seeing a wide range of how people react to this turn.

On a not wholly unrelated point, as a society we are still massively underplaying the tremendous tidal wave of mental health problems this is continuing to unleash.

I've seen a lot of "well fuck it, let's go nuts" posts

yeah im mystified at a few of my friends reacting this way, actually deciding to go to shows and do other things they were on the fence about. i'm no doctor but idk, if we're all going to get it, i'd rather keep being careful and try my luck with the lowest exposure i can manage than go huffing up big virusy lungfuls of omicron at some crowded indoor gig

Yeah I don't get that thought process at all.

Agreed.

Protocol definitely feels all over the place rn. We're hanging out with some friends (all vaxxed & boosted) at our houses, but some of those same friends are asking people to get tested before coming over. Not sure if they think a PCR test three days before is actually beneficial given our risk level, or just because they want to seem responsible.

For my wife's one family Xmas event, apparently the idea is for everyone to get rapid antigen tests that morning. Not exactly sure how that will work, but apparently there's at least one place in town that does walk-ins for free, although her mother doesn't know the name of the place. But I guess out-of-town family members are going to drive in, get tested, and drive back if they test positive? Unless they want to find and purchase home tests, I guess. Still haven't done one of those.

xp, I mean agreed about mental health issues

I will say the at home rapid tests are super easy and good to have around.

xp agree, there may be some yolo bluff but ime ppl are wrestling with it and are surprised to find themselves wrestling with it, I think omicron really has tripped ppl up which is one reason everyone was so eager to accept “it’s milder” as gospel like 2 minutes after the variant was identified, but now it’s sinking in that it may in fact be milder and still be a big problem

idk I’m doing a lot of speaking for other people but the sense I get is that the parameters have sort of shifted over time and each person’s idea of the right thing to do doesn’t feel as obvious as it might have before

Oh I was agreeing with jvcs first post there btw

we at least have free stocks of rapid tests, so testing the morning you meet up with vulnerable family etc is not a big deal.

yeah (here in the northeast US) wife & i have been buying rapid tests when we can over the last couple months, not hoarding but trying to make sure we've always got 4 or 5 on hand to test ourselves & others as the need arises. even though theyre not PCR tests, its still been extremely good for general anxiety relief if we're feeling iffy or have been in a questionable situation. highly recommend investing in a few if you can find any around

Is there a gap between fuck it lets go nuts and donald sutherlanding at everyone because it seems like theres a gap there most of us are in

I'm seeing a lot of "we're all going to get it eventually, so there's no point in attempting to reduce any risk to myself or my contacts whatsoever". which I do understand, but also, there is still value in putting off when you get it, if possible, and especially this close to Christmas. (and many people only newly/ not yet boosted).

Last Christmas I gave you COVID