Thankful n' Thoughtfull: The Sly Stone Dedicated Chronological Listening Thread

I used to have a comp of pre-Family Stone stuff and I don't remember any of it being much good. I'm prepared to change my opinion though.

for my part I can't say I love any of this either, they're basically curiosities, not bad but not really absorbing either.

but these threads are about being completists, goddammit, you can't bail at the beginning!

buncha whiners imo

for real

I'm here till the bitter end!

Not going anywhere; just not finding a whole lot to say about these songs yet.

yeah this is interesting, good work Shakey

"Yellow Moon" is great. Sly!

Re. earlier discussion: other rock bands he produced were the Vejtables and the Mojo Men.

And Psyrkle aka Crazy Horse

Wow, that's an obscure one. Neither the band nor that entire record label (apparently a subsidiary of Autumn) seem to be on Discogs.

6. The Viscaynes - Stop What You Are Doing (1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_LeUbz9ts

The Viscaynes second single. Around this same time, Sly put out a couple 45s under his own name (or some variation thereof), which we will get to shortly. That kinda doesn't sound like Sly singing lead to me on this one. Fine but not particularly remarkable doo-wop imo.

That kinda doesn't sound like Sly singing lead to me on this one.

You don't say? I would have thought this stuff was maybe a bit out of date in 1961?

not really, doo-wop's peak is late 50s/early 60s. Dion was killin it in 1961 for ex.

For what it's worth: there was definitely a revival around that time--probably the commercial peak, yeah--but I think most of the greatest doo-wop was the first wave in the early/mid-'50s: "In the Still of the Nite," Moonglows, Flamingos, Drifters, Nolan Strong, "Earth Angel," etc.

yeah, quality is a different argument. Commercially it was still a viable form in 1961.

Not coincidental to the commercial peak: it definitely got a lot whiter during the revival. Some of which--Dion, the Diamonds' "Little Darlin'," the Capris' "There's a Moon Out Tonight," etc.--was pretty great.

Maybe it was a west coast thing, but this record is 1963 and this was a black group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq0I8MAz3H4

I'm sure it was still popular in the west coast Latinx community even later than that. Something like "Sad Girl" by Thee Midnighters still has that 6/8 groove going.

1963:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_unB6ODy8

And if you guys will indulge me (sorry, I love this stuff), one more. Black group, L.A., 1962.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe1d0b4Y--I

You know, I think when it comes to someone like Zappa, this is something that's misunderstood. When the Mothers started out playing in this style, it was not actually some archaic, defunct form of music. It was current. (See also Beefheart's "I'm Glad.")

7. The Viscaynes - I Guess I'll Be (1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv0lkEkKUQ0

The b-side to "Stop What You Are Doing" (both tracks also credited in some places to the Viscaynes and the Ramblers).

hard to detect Sly in this mix, although I assume he had a hand in the writing/arrangement but who knows.

i really like this one !

kinda has a “dream lover” lite vibe

def a bit of the Bobby Darin version in that guitar pattern

Was just reading about how Jeff Miller, one of the students killed at Kent State, was a big Sly and the Family Stone fan and would travel to see them play. His brother wrote this letter for this year's commemoration, which is tomorrow, the 50th anniversary.

https://www.kent.edu/sites/default/files/file/russ_miller_letter_0.pdf

Still no sign of Shakey.

yeah, strange.

8. Danny (Sly) Stewart - Do You Remember aka I'm Just a Fool (non-album single, 1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXAyOIzOLKs
The first appearance of the ""Sly"" moniker and his initial foray as a solo artist. Continuing in the doo-wop vein of previous one-offs, he delivers a controlled and stylized lead vocal complete with vibrato and few of the idiosyncratic tics that he would develop later, although in the bridge his voice becomes more recognizable as it hits his upper register. Otherwise the song is fairly standard 6/8 ballad with a conventional instrumental and vocal backing arrangement.

That you, Shakey?

I fear it may be some time before we have an interesting song to listen to.

9. Danny (Sly) Stewart - A Long Time Alone (non-album single, 1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY4Y9tKd6kg
It's hard to argue that there's much distinctive about his early doo-wop efforts. Here we have another weepy teenage romance set to a 6/8 ballad arrangement, with a prominent vibraphone part and some odd, descending half-step chord changes in the refrain being the most unique things about it. Sly's lead vocal is serviceable, again leaning on a crooning vibrato.

He is like 17 or 18 here, it's better than Lou Reed could manage when he was 16 but that's about it.

10. Danny (Sly) Stewart - Oh What a Night (non-album single, 1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKbomnigCQ8
Things starting to get a more little interesting. We're still in solidly workmanlike doo-wop territory, but this time there's a good hook, some rhythmic tomfoolery with the stop-start accents throughout, plus a key change. The best of the lot so far.

11. Jessie James and the Royal Aces - I Will Go (non-album single, 1962)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_T4j7g0Ts
Sly on guitar, trading licks with the piano player throughout the song in a somewhat jazzy (and frankly, overly busy) manner for this slow grinding ballad. Oddly picks up the pace into double-time in the middle before Jesse's smooth vocal slows things back down for the showstopping last verse.

Worth noting that at this point Sly is already working with a few future members of the Family Stone, including his brother Freddy and Jerry Martini (who is on several of the tracks already posted, including "Yellow Moon". Sly is 18 when he meets Bobby Freeman in 1962, and Autumn Records founders Bob Mitchell and Tom Donahue also get interested in hiring him as a house producer around the same time.

12. Jessie James and the Royal Aces - Cha Cha Minnie (non-album single, 1962)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtFS-qt8Jok
Sly also credited with playing guitar on this rocked-up cha-cha, which was the B-side to ""I Will Go"". There were a bunch of similar songs like this a couple of years prior (Johnny Otis' ""Willy Did the Cha Cha"", Sam Cooke's ""Everybody Loves to Cha Cha""), so a little behind the times perhaps.

Sly had one other production credit ahead of his tenure at Autumn records, which we will get to tomorrow. After that things enter much more varied musical territory (Bobby Freeman, Beau Brummels, Mojo Men, etc. Although not certain that the above-referenced proto-Crazy Horse Psyrcle record allegedly produced by Sly actually exists; it is not in the Selvin book's discography).

14. Gloria Scott & The Tonettes - I Taught Him (Pts 1 and 2) (non-album single, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlR7tU9WT-0
A great, short and sweet girl-group single with a head-held-high spoken intro and an energetic vocal from Gloria. The horns blare, the bass walks, the drums roll and the girls tell off their no-good (former) boyfriend. Not especially remarkable for the genre but credibly delivered overall. Sly's hand is not particularly evident - it doesn't sound like he performs on the track - but emblematic of his blossoming range and tastes.

15. Bobby Freeman - Let's Surf Again (non-album single, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Pw0IDTgJ4
By this point Sly is 20, he's been diligently studying music in Vallejo at Solano Community College and working in San Francisco as a disc jockey for KSOL (and later KDIA) and has finagled his way into a staff producer position with the newly founded Autumn Records. Bobby Freeman is already friends with Sly and familiar with the label-owners, and is tapped as their lead artist for this tune, the label's first release. The first of several inexplicably aquatic-themed records (this time namechecking the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean in a shameless and hilarious bit in the middle), Freeman delivers a fine soul-shouting performance over a rollicking drum-and-guitar centered arrangement. Not sure who's playing guitar here but the licks are energetic, the horns and backing vocals sailing over the (many) drumrolls until we get to the droning call-and-response section at the end, the bass leaning into a nice octave-jumping riff. Not bad, but not a hit.

16. Bobby Freeman - Come to Me (non-album single, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFmLqHsMeU
The b-side to Let's Surf Again hearkens back to Sly's doowop sides of just a couple years prior. It's almost Spector-ian in its production, cramming what is clearly a pretty large band of drums, guitar, piano, horn section, backing vocalists into the echo chamber. The song sways in the standard 6/8 time signature, working through a gently ascending and descending lead melody and lovelorn lyrics. Serviceable.

17. Bobby Freeman - C'mon and Swim (Pts 1 & 2) (C'mon and Swim, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PT40tW-qgI
In mid-1964 Sly co-writes and produces ""C'mon and Swim"", as well as playing organ and guitar and possibly bass. It sells a million copies, goes to #5 on the US pop chart - Sly's first involvement with a real hit. Future Family Stone member Jerry Martini has also been in Sly's orbit for several years already (he's on some of the Viscaynes tunes) and is also in the 15-piece horn section used here. Seems like there's some racial politics dimension to a black man using surfing/swimming as a marketing gimmick in the early 60s, and perhaps this aspect appealed to Sly, already deeply invested as he was in crossing rigidly enforced color-lines. Essentially a novelty dance tune, the sound is nonetheless pretty immense, big and brassy, Freeman doing his best Sam-Cooke-in-party-rocking mode. Easy to imagine this going over gangbusters at the Cow Palace and other Bay Area dancehalls.

18. Sylvester Stewart - I Just Learned How to Swim (non-album single, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYyNXK-88Q
This solo single was presumably a quick cash-in to ride the success of the Freeman hit. Sly has absorbed rock and the British Invasion at this point, plainly obvious from the opening Chuck Berry riff, the driving 4/4 beat and the dance-oriented lyric. Some pretty serious shredding on the guitar solo and the whole thing has an energy and propulsiveness that sets it apart from his previous doo-wop roots.

19. Sylvester Stewart - Scat Swim (non-album single, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2vjKDdpqGE
A choppy surf-rock guitar rhythm opens the b-side, leading abruptly into a swing-rhythm scat-singing breakdown, Sly evidently employing some DJ patter skills likely developed during his stint at KSOL. The scatting gives way to a guitar solo over a chugging proto-Nuggets organ, and then we're back to the beginning. Kind of a bizarre studio throwaway/experiment which, while incorporating pieces of the a-side arrangement, is actually built around a completely different take/backing track.

Don't worry, I'm going to sit down and listen to all these at some point! The thing is I actually have a CD of all this stuff somewhere that I think I played once.

fixed youtube link for no. 18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qe1KKTQvjI

That Gloria Scott track sounds incredible. Some naked drums at the end, I wonder if they've been sampled.

20. Bobby Freeman - S-W-I-M (C'mon and Swim, 1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f4cDwVOVk0
The same old dance we did before, now we're back to swim some more. For a hacky attempt at repeating a prior hit, the production and performance here feel a bit hotter - that's a huge horn section blasting away, and the rhythm section is similarly laying into this with a level of fury and commitment not entirely justified by the material. Sly's goofy humor peeks through with an inexplicable organ quote of the theme from Peter Gunn in the middle. In general it's easy to see this as Sly flexing his muscle in the studio following a successful single: now that he's got the resources and skills to arrange for a bigger ensemble, the strategy is to repeat the formula and just crank up the energy level. It didn't really work, the single stalled at 56 on the US Pop Charts, and was Freeman's last hit.