Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

xp, re. abrams, colson whitehead is good. 1 outta 3.

abrams giving real "i read these books in high school and this other one recently" energy with those choices

Politicians with good taste in the arts are rare. I remember reading in the late '00s that Alito thought John Cheever's Falconer (!) was immoral.

ppl like Abrams coming out to firmly add "this never happened" statements adds a whole other level of ghoulishness imo

like... we know. it's awesome to be in this double bind of rapists where i have to decide which one is less bad

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, April 29, 2020 7:19 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

not that i even have to decide! it's just sickeningly horrible all the way through!

I empathize deeply with you but I'm just not sure of what the remedy would be.

― And I swear that I don't have a gnu (Ye Mad Puffin)

listen to women. respect women. don't just give us lip service, but follow the fuck through. i don't demand that you agree with me. i don't demand that you not vote for biden. i am saying that you please fucking try to be cognizant of the consequences of your words and deeds, of how they affect other people. i understand that this is difficult, that this is a highly emotional time, that you are highly emotionally invested in the outcome of this election. take fucking ownership of that. stop spending all of your time showing fucking graphs and talking about polls and talking about how other people may or may not vote and take goddamn ownership of your own emotions.

like, not to pick on tombot, because again, he is a Good Guy(TM) but when he starts a post off like:

"I don’t know if Biden is a rapist. I don’t know if Trump is a rapist."

that to me comes off as really fucking dishonest and really fucking dismissive of both reade and, this is the fucking kicker, really fucking dismissive of trump's victims as well, just to be "fair", because we want to be "fair" and "rational", right? to me, and this is just my read, i could be wrong, it comes off like using agnosticism as a shield to avoid having to confront the possibility that tombot is planning on voting for a fucking rapist, that he is so emotionally invested in the shit trump has done to him, to him personally, that he's willing to excuse or ignore or disregard the candidate he's planning on voting for having raped a woman.

if that's what tombot needs to do to live with himself, look, we all need to live with ourselves at the end of the day, but anybody who tells me that? i am going to judge the fuck out of them, and today i'm not in a place where i can see something like that and just silently shake my head in disgust like i usually do.

Kate otm tbh

i mean, i was one of the people who was cautiously skeptical of the claim at first. the difference now is the evidence has changed. there is now more corroboration than there was for kavanaugh.

I admit I've been salty about people vowing not to vote for Biden but I'm going to try and let that shit go. I think everyone here has been extremely thoughtful about their reasons for voting or not voting and certainly I don't think anyone itt can be reasonably accused of not making an informed decision, especially compared to the overwhelming majority of our countrymen.

it's just unbelievable that this is the candidate we are stuck with, when there were two--two!--very inspiring ones at the outset of the primaries.

both of whom had national name recognition.

genuinely sorry to have disappointed you kate

Did anyone actually ask Tombot who he’s going to vote for or did he just volunteer that information?

The election is in six months, guys

get ready to hear a million versions of this for the next several months, if biden is the candidate:

"I believe that women deserve to be heard and I believe that they need to be listened to," Abrams said Tuesday night. "But I also believe that those allegations have to be investigated by credible sources. The 'New York Times' did a deep investigation and they found that the accusation was not credible. I believe Joe Biden. I believe that he is a person who demonstrated that his love of family, his love of our community, has been made perfectly clear through his work as a Congressional leader and as an American leader."

"I know Joe Biden and I think he's telling the truth and this did not happen," she added.

"You said you have heard her and heard enough and don't believe her. You believe Joe Biden," Lemon said.

"What I'm saying is the 'New York Times' investigation of her allegations, the 'New York Times' investigation doesn't support the accusation against the vice president," Abrams said. "I believe the Biden I know. And I think he will make women proud he will make America proud."

not just from abrams, or whoever ends up being the VP, but from everyone who is tasked with defending biden on live tv

is six months a long time or a short time i honestly can't tell anymore

now it's an eternity

Now it’s a jiffy.

if as is likely the choice is trump or biden, i know whom i'm voting for. respect though for people who sit this out. still i'll be hoping MLK day 2021 is trump's penultimate day as president

The election is in six months, guys

― The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, April 29, 2020 7:53 AM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the election lasts 1.5 years

get ready to hear a million versions of this for the next several months, if biden is the candidate:

Yeah, these are literally the talking points.

btw, just because signals get crossed and messages get conflated, i want to be clear that i too, like the people who recently stepped forward to confirm reade's story, will be voting for joe biden if he is still the candidate this fall.

i just think there is time to select another candidate before this fall. he doesn't have the nomination yet. the convention hasn't happened. primaries are getting canceled. the presumed candidate is a sexual assaulter. let's end this shitshow and nominate someone who isn't a sexual offender.

i realize that this offends the sensibilities of the hardcore biden supporters who would feel that their legit primary votes are being canceled. but you know what? when someone you support does something awful and then lies about it, there are consequences to everyone involved, including the feelings of biden supporters.

^ Where I'm at

What is there that can be done to select another candidate? What kind of pressure do we have to put on who?

the election lasts 4 years

I plan on sending a physical letter to my congressperson. xp

Even CNN is knocking down the New York Times defense.

http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-new-york-times/index.html

The full CNN story linked in clem's story, with new interviews: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/tara-reade-neighbor/index.html

Even the NYT is knocking down the NYT defense.

A New York Times spokesperson says Biden campaign talking points “inaccurately” suggest that the Times investigation found that Tara Reade’s allegation “did not happen.” Response to this scoop from @rubycramer @RosieGray https://t.co/ZUD6f2WSEE pic.twitter.com/LNaHvH0ZxF

— Jonathan Easley (@JonEasley) April 29, 2020

I guess the next logical post would be "Even Joe Biden is knocking down the New York Times defense."

i realize that this offends the sensibilities of the hardcore biden supporters

How many of those even exist? I have a feeling the majority of Democratic primary voters, and maybe even the majority of Biden voters, would be happy with somebody else (tho who exactly is obviously a big question).

based off of the 1988 and 2008 primaries, maybe 3-5% of the democratic electorate is hardcore biden? even that seems too high

he is a guy who waited his turn and stood near important people. he doesn't inspire much

yeah, exactly. and if it wasn't for covid and bernie dropping out -- i.e., if the primaries were proceeding as usual -- who knows what impact this would have had. the coverage would have been different.

I see ilxors here repeatedly referring to Biden as a rapist. Is Tara Reade's story that Joe Biden raped her in the US Capitol building? Or is rape a construction that ilxors are putting on the story, but Reade is not? I can take my answer offline.

here is the story:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/tara-reade-neighbor/index.html

xpost you sure can

I had to look up "digital penetration" from her claim - it's digital in terms of his finger being a digit, not zeros and ones.

I beg you can we not start splitting hairs about what specific behaviors constitute rape

a very depressing xpost

Aimless out here 'just asking questions.'

Thoughtlording on this topic in a forum where 3/4 of the women who made it more vital just a few years ago already have stopped posting is not something we need

― silby, Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:38 AM (three weeks ago)

Karl gave me the answer containing the kind of information I was asking for. If you want to split hairs, milo, don't expect me to follow along.

I wasn't splitting hairs about what constitutes rape either, I was confused by the use of the word digital.

I started wondering (on FB, not here) if Biden should step aside a few weeks ago, based on what I thought were obvious questions about his fitness to run. I'm not sure those questions were ever adequately resolved before they got pushed aside by the pandemic (where he was given an excuse--not a very credible one, I thought--to lay low).

Now this. Biden knows whether the allegations are true or not. If they're true, then obviously step aside immediately--he should never have ran. That part's easy. If he knows they're not true, though, it's still messy. You'll have a campaign that forces one prominent Democrat after another into taking his word for it and awkwardly defending him, and then his fitness for office is going to come back too--it's not like that's gone away for good. Whether that means Sanders or starting over, no idea. And I completely understand how that could be seen an insult to the two constituencies who supported him in the primaries, African-American and older voters. That's why it's such a mess.

I don't think I'll get much agreement here, but if you go back to 2016, I think Biden probably accepted that he wouldn't run again when he stepped aside for Clinton--even when she lost, I doubt he immediately thought about running. I think he got seduced by some early polling a couple of years ago and then hastily jumped in. How feckless his campaign was early on would support that, I think.

Biden knows whether the allegations are true or not

assuming you have faith in his current brainpower

That did cross my mind, yeah--somewhere in there he knows.

Shakey’s thread was locked and yet here we are.

OK. I read the CNN article Karl linked to. The evidence has risen to the point where it cannot be denied away. Biden stepping aside is by far the best outcome and him staying in would be a disaster. Both Obamas, both Clintons, Pelosi and every prominent and influential Democrat needs to back Biden into a corner and browbeat him until he relents. He's finished and it's his own fault. Putting the pieces of the campaign back together again would be extremely difficult, but Biden prolonging this will just make it that much harder.

Both Obamas, both Clintons, Pelosi and every prominent and influential Democrat needs to back Biden into a corner and browbeat him until he relents

that's why the timing of HRC's endorsement - yesterday - was very o_O. he's gotten other prominent endorsements, of course, even after the first wave of stories on reade. but to do so after this new information has come to light is just really shitty. it seemed like she was trying to send a signal that the establishment would continue to stand behind biden, no matter what. ew.