A week from now that'll be "low relative to, er, the US".
― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 19:48 (eight months ago) link
One day I heard this rolling WS news report on how the French economy hasn't been fucked this much since '46. Yeah quelle surprise.. I wonder if this is happening anywhere else.
― calzino, Sunday, 3 May 2020 20:21 (eight months ago) link
I've only watched 2 eps of Normal People, I'm assuming things actually happen in this at some point? I do actually like it, I'm mildly confused by how old they're meant to be (took til the end of ep 2 to twig that Dublin Murders cop was his mum not his sister). So far nearly everything Marianne has said has been about how she's not like the other girls too, yet seemingly confident. Perhaps that's less obvious in the book, idk? Anyway I'm sticking with it...
― kinder, Sunday, 3 May 2020 20:52 (eight months ago) link
Yes, similar reactions to you, Kinder. I have 2.5 hours to go in this and will finally be able to get the measure of it after that - maybe end of this week. FWIW I do think that the episodes after the first two are an improvement.
― the pinefox, Monday, 4 May 2020 09:33 (eight months ago) link
the 80s tv adaptation of Brideshead Revisited is 11 episodes and runs 12 hours (first and last episodes are over 90 minutes).
the first six and last six episodes of Normal People are directed by different people and the first six seem to me to be much better crafted/ more aesthetically interesting. I really liked the bulk of it but the last few episodes strained my credulity and by the end I had completely soured on it to the extent that when I caught the Italian villa on terrestrial tv I was actually intensely irritated by it's solipsism and, imo, needless cruelty.
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 24 May 2020 23:18 (seven months ago) link
Italian villa episode, that is.
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 24 May 2020 23:20 (seven months ago) link
It's true about the odd change of director halfway through.
I think I liked episodes 3-5 best.
It's true that BRIDESHEAD was long - surely too long. That book is not vast (say 300 pages?) and it's almost completely dreadful anyway. The fact that, as you say, it received so much dramatised airtime now seems awful.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 26 May 2020 12:23 (seven months ago) link
I'm glad to agree with Jed about these last episodes and the rubbish Italian villa nonsense.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 26 May 2020 12:24 (seven months ago) link
Had no idea about the Normal People split - that explains a lot.
― Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 27 May 2020 19:08 (seven months ago) link
The stakes don't seem high enough in Normal People to justify the torment dealt to Marianne, in my opinion. I can believe that a mother could, irl, support a son who had beaten up his sister and broke her nose but I don't accept it in the service of this particular story and I find the fact that so many people find the story romantic to be worrying.
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 28 May 2020 03:26 (seven months ago) link
Again broadly agree.
It may well be that much more is going in the novel, or that it's a great novel. But the TV version has to be judged on its own terms.
In the TV version not enough is going on, not enough is at stake (as Jed says), and whatever problems characters have are not properly explained, despite 6 hours to do it.
It's attractive and appealing in a way but the longer it goes on, the less it stands up. By the last few episodes I couldn't help thinking it was pretty dire.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:50 (seven months ago) link
I thought this thread revival would be about Emily Maitlis and Newsnight!
I've started the Italian episode but not hugely incentivised to finish it, or the series.
Both leads are believably useless emotionally but Marianne has an unlikability that goes along with it. And I keep thinking we're supposed to Intuit more about her than we're presented - thinking about, for example, Sophie's clumsy attempt at organising a threesome; are we supposed to find Marianne's reaction sympathetic or pathetic? Romantic or deluded? I get the feeling it's definitely supposed to be one rather than the other, and I think I'm on the wrong side. Conversely, for someone who we're supposed to think is really just a bogtrotter Conner is woke af about rights to say no etc (even making a big point of it the first time they have sex) but at the same time is having no-strings hookups and nearly fucks his old teacher just because he can.
The strangest thing for me was writing off a large element of the greater cast as not worth it because "they're typical Trinity types" when one of the protagonists is exactly that.
― Mud... jam... failure (aldo), Thursday, 28 May 2020 17:23 (seven months ago) link
safe to say I'll be giving "Football, Prince William and Our Mental Health" a miss unless at some point they conduct an experiment to see if kicking the fuck out of William's head has far more superior mental health benefits than kicking a football.
― calzino, Thursday, 28 May 2020 19:40 (seven months ago) link
They should announce a s2 of Normal People and just make it about Lorraine cleaning houses and being lovely because she's absolutely the best thing about the show.
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:51 (seven months ago) link
Conversely, for someone who we're supposed to think is really just a bogtrotter Conner is woke af about rights to say no etc (even making a big point of it the first time they have sex) but at the same time is having no-strings hookups and nearly fucks his old teacher just because he can
I don't think that's right - in the series he's super-intelligent plus he's been brought up by a very smart single mother with a keen eye for the way women are treated / mistreated by men. He's read Germaine Greer by the time he's 18! And in the incident with his former teacher he walks away even when absolutely hammered.
I didn't think this was brilliant but I found it more interesting than some of you seemed to - as a story about how people are formed and deformed by their circumstances and experiences (family, class, sex, blah blah) and how that plays through their good and bad behaviour and decisions, it was interesting enough. And it, like the novel, manages to be too on-the-nose about any of it I think. I think when both work best they absolutely leave some confusion about whether something's romantic or pathetic. I definitely recognised the pain of watching people who at base are decent are the same bad decision over and over again. (I liked the book as much as I liked the series FWIW, I thought both were good but not outstanding.)
― Tim, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:15 (seven months ago) link
New season of David Olusoga's A House Through Time started this week, it's Bristol this time. Great stuff as always, he's one of the main reasons to still tune in to the BBC these days.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:21 (seven months ago) link
Yeah, I saw that last night, great episode to kick things off. Looking forward to part two. I loved that they explained the 18th century political 'cartoon', explaining all the tiny details. 'The Sixth Letter' book in one's pocket, dragging a dead man to the polls to get his vote etc.
It's about Englands's slavery past - well, those who profited from it immensely - and I've been seeing more of that incidentally (even fucking Paul from FlogIt had a 'slavery was bad! It's going under hammer right now!' epiphany recently). I don't know if this is a new thing for England, but it's been noticeable.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:59 (seven months ago) link
XpsMarianne's pain is more present in the text, even if the causes of it are more absent - in the figure of the monstrous father. One way of reading Marianne and the brother is that they both compulsively repeat the cycle of abuse. Which is a way of saying I 'believed' her more readily in the text. I think that's a function of the space of literature but that needs unpacking. I keep coming back to the title. I think it's supposed to be provocative and the adjective is doing a hell of a lot of that provocation but it's there and my response is to think, well, how *about* some normal people then? The series, especially, is full of normal people and they're made out to be almost grotesque - there's not even a deferred glow, they're just shadow figures. What about his story - him with his worries about his small dick or her with her worries about body hair (just to focus on bodies)? That would be normal. Instead we get a fetishised, voyeuristic close-up of beautiful people being tortured by their genius and beauty, however little they understand these things. (Not that I don't enjoy looking at beautiful people being beautiful, but still.)Anyway, that's all a rambling and confused.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 29 May 2020 11:14 (seven months ago) link
(even fucking Paul from FlogIt had a 'slavery was bad! It's going under hammer right now!' epiphany recently).
Slavery was also very much present in the previous seasons but it's more to the front in this one I agree. I like how upfront the presentation is: these are the people who lived in this house, this is how they made their money. Very hard to spin as activist historians or revisionism, though I'm sure if the show becomes more popular the usual suspects will have a go.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:04 (seven months ago) link
And it, like the novel, manages to be too on-the-nose about any of it I think.
Wonder if this should be: 'manages not to be' ?
― the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:49 (seven months ago) link
One of the many problems with the programme is something it shares with tons of visual narrative, which is that it tends to be terrible at rendering literature, writing, reading - or sometimes even ideas and thinking.
Thus: by the end, we're told that Conor is an amazing writer. But the programme has shown us absolutely nothing that he has written that looked in any way amazing. At best, we have simply to imagine this quality. But given that it's presumably supposed to be so important to him, that's not very adequate.
At one point she says his emails to her were amazing. He jokes that they're better than his stories. Well, what we do see / hear even of their emails to each other are embarrassingly mundane. 'Normal' if you like. It's fine to write and send such emails. But it's not good for them to appear in a programme where it's implied that they're works of genius.
― the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:53 (seven months ago) link
There was really so much bad about this programme that I should just give up thinking about it at all.
I still recognize that the book could possibly be much better.
Here's a better thing about the BBC: iPlayer currently hosts a load of terrific RKO films. I'm going to watch MY FAVOURITE WIFE later.
― the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:55 (seven months ago) link
xp yes thanks PF, should have been not "not too on the nose".
― Tim, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:59 (seven months ago) link
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, May 29, 2020 2:04 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Thanks, I didn't know that as I haven't seen all previous seasons. Agreed on how up-front it is, it really works. David Olusoga's delivery is very good for this approach.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 14:06 (seven months ago) link
This from the former deputy leader of North Somerset Council: https://t.co/qLBlvm6Djb— Martin Booth (@beardedjourno) May 28, 2020
― kinder, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:07 (seven months ago) link
Can't believe there are thick ignorant racists in Somerset
― Children of Bo-Dom (Noodle Vague), Friday, 29 May 2020 15:19 (seven months ago) link
Hold on, I've been led to believe that only working class people from the Midlands and the North can be thick ignorant racists.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Friday, 29 May 2020 15:22 (seven months ago) link
"Some cruelty yes but"
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:22 (seven months ago) link
I have (had, actually, as they've mostly been forgotten) Thoughts about Normal People but this was one of them (also Aldo otm). Including how they're meant to be excellent writers - we see a flash of this in Marianne (as I've moaned about before - after the first two eps where she's mainly talking about how she's not like other girls) but not really anywhere in their communication for the most part. Is that meant to be some kind of irony? I watched the weird 'breaking glass in sink' 'flashback for most of ep' 'back to broken glass in sink' bit and didn't understand what had happened, then the next ep opened with another kind of flashback about this iirc? Like everything takes so long to spell out except the actually important stuff. That Jamie or whatever he was called was such a bloody pantomime villain too, was any of his character supposed to be anything other than bog standard sneery entitled Grange Hill bully? Did he and Marianne share anything on any intellectual level? Where did Peggy go?I did like that the characters that seemed to help Marianne through everything were the 'normal' (ha) women, just by being there without anything to prove - Lorraine and the English flatmate with no mummy issues who was gently checking in on her the whole time.I feel like lots of people got a lot from this series/book and I possibly just missed it all.Also this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/05/sally-rooney-normal-people-hulu-bbc-soap-opera
― kinder, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:23 (seven months ago) link
Well I got to the end. I guess the only time I really engaged with it was in Conner's reaction to the suicide, but when it was just turned into a narrative excuse for his behaviour which wasn't apparently different from before then I was just annoyed.
My big takeaway is that we make all our life decisions before we have the experience or emotional ability to make them.
― Mud... jam... failure (aldo), Friday, 29 May 2020 16:18 (seven months ago) link
ok all day the bbc news main headline has been about a rocket going into space. considering whats happening in th euk and around the world w/ covid an considering what else is happening in the us this is fn perverse. also how inefficient is the private sector, literally 50+ years behind the ussr
― plax (ico), Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:28 (seven months ago) link
nick robinson currently doing an in-depth interview with someone from “the national diversity coalition for trump”crucial stuff there...
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 07:18 (seven months ago) link
i heard him the other day doing a jokey "you would say that wouldn't you, hoho" with a tory saying we should move on from dominic cummings. cunts all of them.
― neith moon (ledge), Monday, 1 June 2020 07:46 (seven months ago) link
creditable job on the 10 of covering the protests. called them a continuation of historical injustice and grievance rather than an aberration. two live OBs. now a fairly brutal piece on contract tracers “sitting on their arse”.how come Today can’t do this?
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:14 (seven months ago) link
Sarah Sands, next question?
― santa clause four (suzy), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:15 (seven months ago) link
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:17 (seven months ago) link
New DG has been announced: Tim Davie.
Big news, I assume.
― the pinefox, Friday, 5 June 2020 10:57 (seven months ago) link
It's another white man but at least this time it's one with Big Croydon Energy.
I think the BBC will need a bit of a bruiser in the coming years, and he can be that. He's not genteel. He's capable of thinking in quite ruthless commercial terms. But I don't think he'll sell the corporation out - he's BBC to the bone.
He doesn't have a news background - so it'll be interesting to see what he does there.
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 11:12 (seven months ago) link
hmm i see he is a toryfeck
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 20:16 (seven months ago) link
The optics are...not great. Rona Fairhead was widely distrusted for being married to a Tory councillor. Davie was deputy chair of the local party.
― ShariVari, Friday, 5 June 2020 20:32 (seven months ago) link
and responsible for BBC Store
― stet, Friday, 5 June 2020 21:16 (seven months ago) link
the less said of that the better
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 22:07 (seven months ago) link
Presumably the optics are good for Tories, who will be calling the shots in the mid-charter review?
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 22:09 (seven months ago) link
Absolutely losing my mind at a BBC panel show discussing the possibilities for radical global change after coronavirus ft George Osborne, Tony Blair and A MINISTER IN ORBAN'S GOVERNMENT https://t.co/WpaR5GI5ir— Dan Hancox (@danhancox) June 22, 2020
lol this shite was on R4 and WS at the same time when I tried to switch over, beyond a fucking joke!
― calzino, Monday, 22 June 2020 11:00 (six months ago) link
I knew Amol Rajan was a horrible right wing bullshit merchant from his despicable media program on R4, but it's much worse than that Jim!
― calzino, Monday, 22 June 2020 11:04 (six months ago) link
LMAAOOOO WHO IS THIS HILARIOUS DUDE??????? 😂😂😂😂😂 THIS RICE COOKING IS A HATE CRIMEpic.twitter.com/V4N4gS4W77— Jenny Yang (@jennyyangtv) July 23, 2020
― calzino, Thursday, 23 July 2020 11:42 (five months ago) link
:D :D :D
― À la recherche du scamps perdu (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 23 July 2020 11:46 (five months ago) link
that is the greatest video i've seen in a long time
― À la recherche du scamps perdu (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 23 July 2020 11:48 (five months ago) link
― imago, Thursday, 23 July 2020 11:50 (five months ago) link