ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

good list!

i'm on a roll of giving up on recent "mainstream"/"hugo-friendly"(?) scifi after 20-50 pages. i've abandoned all of these recently:

NK Jemsin
Too Like the Lightning
The Power
Ancilliary Justice

the reason was pretty much the same for each of them: they seemed like adequeate YA fiction. i was genuinely baffled that adults get anything out of them other than technical admiration. it feels like a joke? do they get better? am i just doing recent scifi wrong?

i don't think the problem is that i don't like scifi. here's some recent-ish scifi that i did like.

the city and the city
station eleven
the southern reach trilogy
sue burke
ted chiang

interested in defenses of the books i abandoned, explanations of what's going on in my head, explanations of what's going on with scifi awards that this kind of stuff gets elevated, and ideally just recommendations of what else to try.

I tend to agree with you.

Station 11 was very YA as well, i thought. I lump it in with The Power for some reason (read at around the same time?). Prefer S11 though.

The Power wasn't just winning SF awards either. It won the big UK women's fiction prize too (was Orange Prize, not sure it is now)

The power was the one out of those four i came closest to throwing across the room

Once again frustrated by my reading slowness, because I really want to read the Palmer and Jemisin books but they're still far away at this point.

There's been a lot of conversations about YA in fantasy and people can be quite touchy about it. My theory about it is that a lot of writers feel they never had enough decent books as children that were aimed at their specific group(s). My worry is that people are increasingly going for comfort reads. Maybe they've always been like that; I've been a horror reader for longer and most horror people were willing to read any level of horrible, so coming into sff world, I'm struck by the number of people who have vast territories they wont go near and I have no idea when its because of really difficult trauma challenges or when its just general timidity.

On the other hand Tomi Adeyemi's Children Of Blood And Bone is supposed to be particularly brutal and it was a big success.

Somtow just released the fifth Inquestor book and is a few chapters into the sixth one. I kinda wish I could binge on a series but I tend to want as much variety as possible, so never read a series right through. I should start the third book soon.

Annoyed how many of my priority books are huge (Crowley's Little Big for instance).

i enjoyed the jemison series and thought the first ancillary book was interesting (the sequels were like miss marple mysteries set in space, with tea)

ted chiang i'll definitely give you, but i don't really see station eleven or the southern reach as leaps ahead? (haven't read the others)

as for what wins awards, well, they've never been fair and i'm not sure they're any more so now. but i don't read enough to say that certain works or authors have been robbed, so

Station eleven is kind of David Mitchell level for me. Very enjoyable and not completely vacuous.

Southern reach was partly appealing to me because of its prose (especially the first one iirc). One thing I will say about my list of four “bad books” up there is they are all completely uninteresting in terms of style, which may be why they feel young adult to me as much as their plot/themes.

I guess I’m being unreasonable in expecting to like award winners. I don’t like the Grammy award winners so why should genre fiction be any different. I guess my question then is where do you find “good” new sci-fi/weird (caveat: I don’t know what “good” means here)?

the jemison series does experiment with first/second/third person. i won't go so far as to say those experiments are necessary or successful, but nor is it lowest-common-denominator stuff

where do you find “good” new sci-fi/weird

here, of course

also silverbob deep cuts

Clarke, Nebula, World Fantasy, Shirley Jackson (horror), Otherwise (formerly Tiptree) awards all have pretty good reputations.

As for flat uninteresting styles, that's been a complaint of mainstream sff since the pulp era. Some say it's gotten worse but I don't know.

I don't know the other work of several contributors to The Best American Science Fiction and Fantasy 2016, guest edited by Karen Joy Fowler, but it *might* be a good gateway, and is certainly one of the most consistently satisfying anthologies this short story junkie has ever experienced. Won the 2017 World Fantasy Award; the SF is good too. Fowler is the co-founder of the Tiptree, and has won other WFs, Nebulas, the Shirley Jackson--oh yeah, and the PenFaulkner for her most recent novel, We Are All Completely Beside Ourselves, about a family that incl. a chimpanzee, raised from birth, until---well, scientist Dad thought it seemed like a good idea at the time. (This actually used to be a thing; Fowler did a lot of research, and didn't have to look far.)
Not science fiction in the usual sense, but she goes wherever a story takes her---anyway, maybe take a lot at her Best American SFF (subsequent volumes in that series have been more uneven, but always at least a few amazing keepers)(haven't tried the one guest ed. by Jemison).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Joy_Fowler

Anyway, trawl this thread and its distinguished namesake; you might find contemporary that appeals. I tend to favor the weirdos with some lit literary flair: Peter Watts, Kelly Link...

Opps, "namesake" would be the next one; I meant the previous:
rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

If you are interested in chimps being raised by humans, don, I highly recommend the book Nim Chimpsky: The Chimp Who Would Be Human,
by Elizabeth Hess, as well as the related documentary Project Nim. For a novel about primatology, see Theory of Bastards, by Audrey Schulman, as mentioned upthread.

Not as much in the subject as the way Fowler deals with it, esp. the ongoing repercussions, but may check Hess and Schulman as well, thanks for reminder of latter.

thanks for all the suggestions!

thanks caek for putting into words the vague thoughts I've been having. "too like the lightning" stylistically uninteresting though? i thought it was highly distinctive - just unreadable.

i enjoyed the ancillary justice series, mrs marple in space sounds fine to me! it felt like a sort of critique or subversion of traditional space opera - the third one seemed to be building up to some huge space battle finale, which was defused (and a victory achieved) with a brief conversation in an elevator.

Also: since the Hugos were attacked by right wing trolls (some of whom oddly complained that GRR Martin and Jemisin are too morbid), it attracted the opposite demographic to protect it, who perhaps prefer YA leaning fantasy?

mrs marple in space sounds fine to me! it felt like a sort of critique or subversion of traditional space opera - the third one seemed to be building up to some huge space battle finale, which was defused (and a victory achieved) with a brief conversation in an elevator. That sounds great!
I confess that I find myself attracted to private eyes and cops going down in mean streets in space, alt-history etc.---The Yiddish Policemen's Union seemed pretty good of its kind, with no noob-to-the-genre(s) groaners---but having some doubts about the possibly (I'm not that familiar with Grisham etc) genre-related speedbumps in near-future dystopian legalistic thriller, or semi-thriller, anyway truly creepy mystery-sniffing Rule of Capture: Author Christopher Brown seems to know his courtrooms, and crisply conveys what and how and why shit happens there---mostly from observant, though sometimes drugged, POV of a scruffy public defender---but why would his colleagues be so helpful to this pariah-in-the-making (who can't afford an investigator, is doing his own maiden voyage snooping), when being on the phone contact lists of his clients---one of whom has just been executed, another is being denaturalised---he's a great lawyer!---increasingly means major culpability---I mean, why does author increasingly resort to righteous tough talk beanspilling, in longass scenes-as-chapters, when he does better with relatively concise third person tracking, and relentlessly logical extrapolations of current trends---also good use of his well-chosen setting: Houston, in holy roiling Texas, is indeed built on a swamp and has no zoning, or de facto only.
Having lost a brief near-space (man-made sats, Moon as real estate) war with (so far offstage) China,, America devours its own in grinding "civil war" (vanguard Lone Star patriot suits citing Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus as crucial basis of new freedom fries). Also martial law re claiming eminent domain over ecotastrophic areas and eco-terrorists(?), with process of the former's redemptive privatization---so as happens so often in SF, he's on the right track, despite stumbles---but they aren't so terribly bad: I'll make it to the end, I'm sure, even though I'm more likely than ever to toss the stumblers (even Jeff Vandermeer's xpost Dead Astronauts---maybe too soon, but not ain't sorry).

Might should have started with Brown's Tropic of Kansas, which introduces this era, and has about five pages of blurbs in this volume (first of a trilogy, uh-oh). Seems like a fairly sturdy stand-alone

but *aint* sorry, no not about it!

*This one* seems like a fairly sturdy stand-alone.

of course, the defender's colleagues could be helpfully steering him in a direction that's not what he would prefer to have in mind (so protagonist and reader slip into more of a paranoid groove thing, no less unpleasant for being expected by reader, as much as it shoulda been and kinda was by protag, but he is on drugs pretty often)

The series of 10 minute interviews has been really quite good (it's been on for at least a month) and I listened to one of their older Lavie Tidhar interviews (mostly about holocaust fiction) was really engrossing for me.
https://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/

should i read moderan y/n?

That whole NYRB collection?? Er, see our discussion upthread.

You should definitely read SOME of it.

Οὖτις said on here that he read some of it, didn't feel the urge to continue. I didn't mind the story in The Big Book of Science Fiction, wouldn't mind more anthologized encounters. I guess I might get hooked at some point; I'm really into some other authors who are really into their own thing, like PKD, Tiptree, Cordwainer Smith.

xpost near-future legal thriller Rule of Capture developed more focus-->momentum as the main character got his shit/sense of purpose relatively together, between dark forces without, White-Out (drug) within. Driving over some semi-plausible plot points, fueled by extrapolation of existing law (also "dusty old manuals" re military occupation that the author says he found in University of Texas law school library), current national and statewide and continental (incl climate) trends, current Houston too. Will prob seek out sequel, due in August. (Some utopian claims and urges, competitions in the dystopian complications make it more interesting; some First Nation post-nationalist eco-rebel Rover declarations echo the nationalists, re taking back our country/continent, even.)

Further hopes for the state of YA fantasy fiction: been curious about Susann Cokal, one of her books is said to feature a gem covered penis as one of the main characters and there's lots of enticing negative reviews.

Re: authors (often from marginalized groups) writing the books they wanted for themselves. Was listening to a panel with authors ranting about tropes they were sick of and what type of stories they were longing for and one author said she gets this feeling from reading sometimes which is like "I didn't know how much I needed this all my life".
I wonder if I've ever had that feeling or maybe sometime in the future?

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/580444/the-big-book-of-modern-fantasy-by-edited-by-ann-and-jeff-vandermeer/
https://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-426-ten-minutes-with-ann-vandermeer/
No table of contents yet. Didn't expect this so soon.

I'm reading 2312. I think I'm in love with Kim Stanley Robinson.

Mostly off-topic but SP Somtow has a youtube interview (Opera Siam) with director Paul Spurrier (who mostly works in Thailand) and it was quite fun. Mostly for Somtow talking about the composer Gesualdo (best known for murdering his wife but was apparently way ahead of his time musically) and shows a clip of himself conducting a Gesualdo piece; comparing film composers scores to their personal works. Talking about various career changes, including reading tarot cards in a nail parlor.

Finished 2312. If you enjoyed the Mars trilogy but thought the endless geological descriptions were tedious and 1500 pages a bit of a slog, this might be for you. Ostensibly a sort of whodunnit - and love story - those are really just sideshows to The Discourse on revolutionary politics and climate action, with snatches of economics, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and aesthetics. And geology. Though (obviously) dealing with a fictional 24th century politics and society it's very much a reflection of the current state of things.

Anyone have any other political SF recommendations? I may have very quickly swung back from my earlier desire for lightweight spaceship fluff.

I’m a hundred pages into New York 2140 so no idea whether it’s good but it’s moderately political so far.

I loved the city and the city if you haven’t read that but it’s borderline on genre.

Way upthread I talked about KSR's Green Earth, a one-volume mixdown of his Science In The Capital trilogy--haven't read that, so don't know how this compares---though at least one subplot left in could have been mixed all the way down, seeming like filler here---some lovely passages for sure---he loves him some Earth! But overview seems to be, "Wow. climate disruption will suck for a lot of people, but could be really groovy for a few," not meaning those who cash in, or not in the usual sense---oh well, give it a look, he can pull you along. And he's gotten me back into Emerson and Thoreau and tromping around the Big Room country.
On the darker side, see what I said more recently up there about Christopher Brown's Rule of Capture.

The Wild Shore is my favorite KSR, though haven't yet checked the next two of his Three Californias.

Very fun interview and actually half an hour, some great sounding books
https://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-436-ten-minutes-with-simon-ings/

Cool. I have been interested in his stuff, maybe I will check him out when I can read again.

Do you not have time for it, or eye problems?

overview seems to be, "Wow. climate disruption will suck for a lot of people, but could be really groovy for a few,"

this seems both accurate and unfair! i can see how speculating about a drowned manhattan becoming a fabulous and trendy new venice might seem a little off but he's definitely on the side of the victims and the overall message of 2312 is a rallying call to action.

I was referring only to Green Earth, which deals with earlier stages of ongoing disruption, as I should have mentioned---haven't read 2312, which apparently takes things further (duh---hard for me to conceive what life on Earth could possibly be like by then!) James, hope you're okay.

Def on side of victims in Green Earth too, but one of the main characters (and his squatter homeboys, all around what's left of DC) can seem like he's been smoking his parents' or grandparents' Whole Earth Catalogs. But this is implicitly for Now, man, not something that can go on forever, and he;s involved in different things.

Do you not have time for it, or eye problems?
Time, sorry

I saw a video with Simon Ings months ago and I was surprised by his manner because his work sounded dark and serious (I can't confirm) but he's so cheery. That part in the interview linked above where he says "it's so leafy!" is going to be stuck in my head forever.

Ings's THE SMOKE, his most recent, is soooo good.