Recommendations for hip-hop without braggadocio (or these other tropes)?

And… Deltron 3030?

I was so sure this was an ancient revive

^^^^

Unfortunately, a look at Deltron 3030 and MF Doom lyrics shows plenty of rapping about rapping.

I am still especially keen for recommendations from outside English-speaking countries. I know that many listeners abroad do not speak English to a level sufficient to understand the lyrics of American hip-hop. It is the beats and the delivery which tickle their fancy, while the actual words might as well be Prisencolinensinainciusol to them. Therefore, there must be artists somewhere on earth who have imitated this genre of words recited over a beat, but with a lyrical approach completely separate from original American hip-hop.

The French and Romanian hip-hop I like does not pass your cruel test. And you haven't told me whether Aesop Rock makes the cut.

Are you looking for a rap adaptation of Anne-Marie Albiach's ÉTAT?

http://www.theoperatingsystem.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/nudite-e1492809194610.png

https://youtu.be/-CmmdBWKnPM

I have never read Albiach, though I am a fan of Emmanuel Hocquard which Albiach's Wikipedia article mentions as a related figure. But sure, I would love to find rap which lyrically resembles 20th-century modernist poetry. The reason why I mentioned Scott Walker’s Climate of Hunter album as an example of what I would love to find a rap analogue of, is because that is a lyrical approach which feels of a piece with the kind of poetry I like reading.

I'm starting to think that you should become such a rapper (not even kidding).

How long before the bragging started though?

now thinking that what the OP wants is in fact the work of ILX user 'usic'

write a rap about onions

https://genius.com/Parappa-the-rapper-you-guys-sit-in-the-back-instructor-mooselinis-rap-lyrics

That's because you just got your license!

(Woo hooo!! Yes!!)

pure, untrammelled braggadocio

Just throw some beats on top:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYxpSjkyAg

This is totally an instance of self-aggrandizement tho:

No Greek will be able

to discriminate my body.

An American

is a complex of occasions,

themselves a geometry

of spatial nature.

troll level: expert

Troll or not, I think this is a worthwhile question. If the kind of hip-hop Melomane is looking for is really that scarce, that would be interesting. It might be fun to think about why certain genres are so strongly associated with certain lyrical tropes that instances of the genre without those tropes are rare. Melomane mentioned country and "oldies rock" as two other candidates.

man ILM is so much nicer than it used to be. i remember getting absolutely flamed by s.clover way back in the day for talking up DOOM and backpacker shit too much.

Just wait till deej gets here.

Btw I agree with JRN that this makes for an interesting thought experiment: how far can you stretch the lyrical material before it becomes 'un-hip-hoppy'? And should such a putative limit exist in the first place?

I still don't understand the negative response to my question here, let alone me being called a troll. Jazz was a genre defined by improvisation, but today it would be entirely valid for someone here to ask "Where can I find jazz that has no little or no improvisational element?" (there is music where the musicians perform entirely from a fixed written score, but which is categorized among jazz for reasons). The first half of the 20th century saw a revolution in classical music where it no longer had to necessary follow tonal harmony or even a written score at all. Rock 'n' roll, as I mentioned, stopped being solely music of rebellion or imitating bluesmen within two decades of its creation. Afrobeat now gets performed by people far away from Africa and unconcerned with the same issues that Fela Kuti was.

So, why is hip-hop so different?

Chief Rocker Busy Bee

Aesop Rock largely avoids the tropes I mentioned, so I guess he is an answer to my question. Still, his lyrics don't grab me and I am unlikely to listen to him for pleasure.

So, why is hip-hop so different?

Current US political discourse.

You wish to aestheticize it, and that is viewed as a politically charged cop-out in its own right. Perhaps doubly so given what's at stake as we speak.

give Count Bass D's "begborrowsteel" a listen. I guess I have found his slight and abstract disses pretty refreshing, now that I think of it that way

Yes, and that backlash feels unfair, considering that I am not from the USA. Of course, anyone should be concerned about injustices around the world, but when it comes to listening to music for mere pleasure (or reading poetry for pleasure), it is not clear why my preferences should reflect the specific societal tensions in some other country.

it is not clear why my preferences should reflect the specific societal tensions in some other country

I'm with you on that, but this is ilxor.com. On the internet, nobody knows you're not an American.

Not just some other country though, the other country.

I personally haven't assumed that other posters here are American. After all, didn't ILM largely start as a community for fans of a Scottish twee-pop band?

Stee-lo

I personally haven't assumed that other posters here are American.

Neither have I, but (some of) us non-Americans like to joke about their (sub)conscious online imperialism (Tom is our undisputed leader).

what are the acceptable drugs for trope-free hip-hop to mention? is alcohol ok?

https://jukebox.openai.com/?song=802877581 heres some hip-hop with no lyrical tropes

god level trolling

Why not just listen to Japanese hip-hop, or Arabic hip-hop, or hip-hop in literally any language you don't speak? You can tell yourself they're rapping about anything you feel like.

I was hanging back from a morbidly curious distance for awhile but it now occurs to me that I might actually know something along the lines of what OP is looking for, and it’s this B L A C K I E album:
https://blackieallcapswithspaces.bandcamp.com/album/imagine-your-self-in-a-free-and-natural-world-2014

Best of luck

T. S. Eliot: 'the music of poetry is not something which exists apart from the meaning. Otherwise, we could have poetry of great musical beauty which made no sense, and I have never come across such poetry'.

I'll let you be the judge of this quote.

xp

i've narrowed it down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw

Quality trolling, good luck sir. May I recommend a different style of music altogether?

No, hold on, found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGUjkvqkmQI

no he's clearly bragging about his rapping, we're looking for lyrics that are in no way self-referential or make use of metaphor or other imagery but aren't abstract and are about nice things like not being uppity or situated in any sociopolitical context whatsoever

Me, an intellectual: hmm yeah sorta like that but could you maybe make it a bit more non-idiomatic

Derek Bailey: *picks up instrument*

Me: bzzzt try again fool

I'd also like to also propose Shakespeare without all that unpleasant regicide and crime novels where the plot is someone asks a nice policeman for directions.. lol this fucking thread!

This one might be more your thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgC8qp_I2Y

^^^bragging AND rapping about rap, why won't you people help a poster lol

Look, here is a rap about playing Zork, I hope everyone is happy now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE

Your Eliot quote, pomenitul, may have been true of its time, Eliot had never come across such poetry. But then shortly thereafter the whole "sound poetry" movement took off, poets like Gerhard Rühm who wrote poems consisting purely of nonsense syllables chosen for the musical effect of the whole.

The suggestion that I listen to hip-hop in a language I don’t understand does seem like an honest attempt to answer my request in the OP, so thanks. But the problem here is that one of my biggest hobbies is language-learning, so I probably would not be oblivious to the lyrics for long. It is hard to invest in an artist if you know there is a big risk of disappointment at some point. I actually already experienced this with Japanese, where several of the artists I liked years ago before I learned Japanese, now make me cringe because of the lyrics.

"Where can I find jazz that has no little or no improvisational element?"

We did have this thread:

What's with that constant cymbal tapping in jazz drumming?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Unwanted_Song

fuck this troll, especially today

I am not from the USA … it is not clear why my preferences should reflect the specific societal tensions in some other country.

Could you address this, roxymuzak?

sure: police brutality and white supremacy are not limited to the usa, so get your head out of your ass

though the earlier suggestion for Japanese hiphop was based on not understanding Japanese, and op apparently does, it's not the worst idea. I think they imported pretty much everything but the lyrical themes. Here's a primer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPVPc1thKE

the answer to op has been staring us in the face this entire time

Can't see the wood for the twees.

Ah, sit down and learn of the Before Times. In yonder days, when I first went 'whuh' at a newsgroup in 1993...

ha, I was on Usenet in 1989

gentlemen, braggadocio

On alt.rocknroll.metal.metallica you can see a 16 year old me preaching Christian faith to metalheads who really didn't want it while simultaneously saying "FUCK YOU" to people who didn't like Load

Did you manage to convert anyone to either of the two?

Yes, 1 person. I convinced myself both views were wrong

lol holy shit. There's a new "internet legacy" thread and we'd like to hear more

okay, now i'm glad this wasn't locked.

nice we could turn this into "where are we anyways?"

did anyone recommend 311

The only thing I remember from alt.music.alternative is "Bzangy Groink", though I don't recall what it signifies- Jyoti Mishra's Club night?

Anyhow, wasn't all this the subject of a Tanya Headon IHM column years and years ago?

Ah, yes. Here it is:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/hate/2003/06/dj-format-the-hit-song/

Could DJ Format be just what OP is after? (I've never heard this track.)

ha, missed that. Did this guy ever say where he is supposedly from?

― maffew12, Monday, June 1, 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Braggadocia

― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Monday, June 1, 2020 bookmarkflaglink

lol

Pictured: OP, a month and a half later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3-5YC_oHjE

🎵 braggadocio and put it in your pocket, save it for a rainy day 🎵

Harsh on such a well-respected, allround, fully participating and definitely not just here to stoke this particularly lame fire borad member

Just got some organic braggadocio in this week's veg box. Please share preparation tips.

roast vigorously for 400 posts, serve