https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXb6bjCCtuY
― budo jeru, Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:34 (three years ago) link
Anyone who doesn’t listen to manele is a white supremacist imho
you're probably right pom but i want to listen to manele that has no connection to Romania and deals with lyrics about urban planning in 1960s Yorkshire
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:37 (three years ago) link
I was being facetious, obviously, but in a Romanian context this is both true and not: some people explicitly hate manele because they view it as a stand-in for the Roma. But most people listen to it all the time and are racist pieces of shit anyway, so the equation 'I listen to music that expressly deals with the struggles of minorities in my country = I support these minorities' is too simplistic to hold any water.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:41 (three years ago) link
sure, and thanks to the magic of global commerce and communication billions of people listen to music that originates from cultural, historical, sociopolitical situations that are not their own, and the back and forth of culture and the ways it gets refracted and adapted, adopted or rejected is fascinating and productive of beautiful new cultural forms and marketable cultural products, and it creates material change as it flows ceaselessly thru the channels of commerce and communication
on the other hand, wanting to consume an idea of a genre that is very specifically deracinated from its cultural birthplace but imagining that it is in some inexplicable way "part of" that genre is, at best reading, a fool's errand, and on most readings more than a little o_O
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:49 (three years ago) link
i guess we have to ILX crowdsource the song OP wants
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:50 (three years ago) link
^^^ I really want this to happen.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:51 (three years ago) link
NV, for sure, which is why my 'beef' with Melomane isn't so much the initial request, which I think is intriguing in its own right, as the implication that other forms of hip-hop (i.e. for all intents and purposes, hip-hop itself) are somehow inferior to this counter-referential subgenre that has yet to see the light of day (and even when it does, as in Aesop Rock's case, it doesn't quite meet OP's standards either). Still, I am most amused by this thread.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:55 (three years ago) link
For real, though, where's deej when you need him?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:56 (three years ago) link
even the backpackiest of backpackers - which isn't exactly AR imo - is grounded, perhaps inevitably - in the history and context of what rap is and where it comes from. and now i've allowed Sunday distraction to make me engage way more than i wanted to, roxy otm.
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 May 2020 13:58 (three years ago) link
Where did I make any claims of superiority or inferiority? This is purely about what I personally want to listen to. Other people should listen to whatever music that makes them happy, and if it is typical hip-hop, then I'm happy that they are happy.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:00 (three years ago) link
I too am mainly interested in the musicality of the language which is why I check the lyrics to songs before listening to them to protect myself from accidentally hearing something about the black experience. It’s actually very normal
― What fash heil is this? (wins), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:02 (three years ago) link
Also, they are called cLOUDDEAD, fill your boots ffs
― What fash heil is this? (wins), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:03 (three years ago) link
I find the braggadocio tiresome: for a performer to rap about how he is a great rapper just seems so lame. I also have no interest in mentions of weed or how life on the streets is tough.
QFT
Sure, you can frame it as a purely subjective preference, but things are never quite so simple, are they? If I meditate on why I dislike certain types of music, the answer is usually more extensive than 'it just doesn't do it for me', at least if I'm being honest with myself.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:04 (three years ago) link
Oh yeah, cLOUDDEAD is a good one. I'd completely forgotten about those guys.
New Kingdom is another one i'd compare to cLOUDDEAD, but still fuck the whole premise of this awful thread.
― calzino, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:10 (three years ago) link
Don't push me because I'm close to the edgeOf the building I'm standing on, so if you push me, I'm deadBut that's not what I'm here to talk about todayThe weather is beautiful and it looks like later there will be a parade
You know what else rhymes with parade?GladeMadeJadeSadeWAit no that's "Zha day"But who am I to sayThat doesn't rhymeparsley page rosemary and thyme
Bitch
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:13 (three years ago) link
Wins suggests that the "black experience" necessarily has to be reduced to a handful of issues which have become hip-hop tropes, which I think does the African diaspora a great disservice. Ethnic minorities are just as capable of writing lyrics which are not overtly related to struggles they face, and for any ethnic minority you can find a poet who has chosen that approach, so why couldn't a hip-hop artist do the same?
Also, if a performer is not himself black (because hip-hop has now been taken up by people of every race around the world), then it is unclear why that performer should be conveying the "black experience". Indeed, when performers who are not black (and perhaps not even an ethnic minority in their region at all) draw on themes and metaphors which derive from the African American experience, can that not be criticized as a form of appropriation? That seems to me a good reason for certain performers to come with a different lyrical approach entirely.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:13 (three years ago) link
rakim talking about how dope he is at rapping is one of the greatest things that ever happened to the english language
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:15 (three years ago) link
I can take a phrase that's barely heardFlip itThe success of what I did is up to you to decide and I'm no better than you
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:19 (three years ago) link
Here you go Melomane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194
― city worker, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:25 (three years ago) link
rejecting anything that mentions weed offhand even if fits the other dubious requirements here is just ridiculous. listen to something else
― no (Left), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:28 (three years ago) link
rolling down the streetwithout indosmoking weed makes me puke
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:29 (three years ago) link
Complaining about rappers rapping about rapping is like complaining about rockers singing about rocking.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:34 (three years ago) link
As far as dealing with a negative self-image goes, Root Manuva's track "Crying" is a much better example of what I’m looking for, inasmuch as that track's lyrics are abstracted from the musical genre in which they are performed.
― Melomane, Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:36 PM (yesterday)
I'd never heard this song before. Now that I have, I'm pretty confused about what you're looking for, or rather what you're finding wanting in the rap you have heard. How are these lyrics "abstracted from" rap? They're like a quarter-step from "don't push me, 'cause I'm close to the edge."
I was going to suggest Shabazz Palaces, but I'm sure that fails the remorseless precision of the keyword test too. Maybe you should just listen to beat tapes
― dip to dup (rob), Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:35 (three years ago) link
For Those About to Rap…
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:35 (three years ago) link
I was going to mention Shabazz Palaces as well, but Black Up is just such an off-putting title, you know?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:37 (three years ago) link
maybe OP just wants emo-rap, with a side-order of kosmische
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVhIA-YH-7w
― imago, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:37 (three years ago) link
^^^full disclosure: my third-favourite song of the 00's, as proven by ILM poll science
― imago, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:39 (three years ago) link
wanting to consume an idea of a genre that is very specifically deracinated from its cultural birthplace but imagining that it is in some inexplicable way "part of" that genre is, at best reading, a fool's errand, and on most readings more than a little o_O
This times a hundred. Spit it, NV!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:40 (three years ago) link
chill lofi beats to study to
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:42 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEHc4u-1QIk
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:44 (three years ago) link
Counter-trolling aside, we've given you a lot of straight answers, Melomane, so it is only meet and right that you should personally respond to each one of them.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 14:46 (three years ago) link
is this Raccoon Tanuki's emo cousin
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 15:18 (three years ago) link
My question in the OP was completely sincere and I am on the outlook for new music, so rest assured that I am following up on every recommendation even to me here (except the obviously facetious ones like Jay-Z and Wu-Tang Clan). I don't think it necessary to mention every case where a given recommendation does not match what I'm looking for. As we can see from this thread, people are likely to take that lack of interest on my part as a value judgement, and be offended that certain art which connects with them does not connect with me.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:06 (three years ago) link
Noodle Vague, seeking out music that is in some way culturally deracinated from its origins would not, as I have said, be controversial in many other genres. People ask for prog rock and Nordic jazz recommendations all the time. If my question about hip-hop offends so many here, that must be due to contemporary social concerns and the way people tie hip-hop as a genre to them.
For anyone who grew up under socialism (pomenitul would probably understand if he came of age aesthetically before 1989), the position taken by others here is disquieting. I thought that we were finally finished with the insistence that art must deal with the problems of struggling people, and if you seek art that is abstract, then that must mean that you are prejudiced against workers etc. and cruelly ignore their problems. But there will always be people whose tastes in art run to abstraction, and that does not mean approval of oppression.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:19 (three years ago) link
yes, it is in fact you who are being oppressed, a disquieting scene here for sure
― budo jeru, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:27 (three years ago) link
"i want to listen to rap that isn't rap"
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:27 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsqXHg9vmjs
― calzino, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:30 (three years ago) link
pomenitul would probably understand if he came of age aesthetically before 1989
I actually agree with you for the most part and my own aesthetic preferences tend towards l'art pour l'art (I think I've made that fairly obvious over the years), in no small part because I am well aware of the ravages of so-called 'socialist realism'. But 'tends' implies some amount of tension, so to speak, which I think raises a set of difficult questions that deserve our attention, starting with one you've yet to answer: what does it mean to paint a value judgement about art as a merely 'subjective' preference? I don't believe works of art exist to 'deal with the problems of struggling people' at all, but I do question why you would leave the type of art that does to others because it doesn't suit your 'tastes'? Is aesthetic taste an unquestionable datum, something that ought to remain unexamined, ohne Warum or 'just because'?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:36 (three years ago) link
Not sure what the problem is with braggadocio anyway tbh. Anyway, lyrics? In one ear and out the other.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:36 (three years ago) link
It's uncivilized.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:37 (three years ago) link
I want to listen to heavy metal music that is only about parking meters
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:37 (three years ago) link
true abstraction is when you just pay no attention to the words
― mark s, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:38 (three years ago) link
i don't think that goes far enough, i like to self-administer ECT until my brain stops falling into recognising the stale old tropes of tonal music, rhythm, and what i'm supposed to be doing
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:40 (three years ago) link
Tbf an aural Voynich manuscript of hip-hop would be pretty awesome.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:41 (three years ago) link
plenty of genres and subgenres started out of not hearing the things you want in music that's around.
Thought of OP when I read an instrument review today....
I learned a LOT being a first time music maker/instrument user/midi etc I have NEVER done anything with music up until this year. Turned 30 and said "I'm TIRED of listening to these trash A** BEATS!!!" so I bought a Komplete Kontrol M32 Keyboard, a DeepMind 6 and an MPC Touch. Haven't used the DM6 yet but OMG I am already a legend in my mind with this MPC and the KK M32.
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:42 (three years ago) link
Not only does the latter seem valid to me but rockers themselves have done this much less since the 80s. I think it would seem weird if Thom Yorke or Win Butler sang something like "Rock You Like a Hurricane".
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:44 (three years ago) link
Also rappers rapping about rapping sounds p “l’art pour l’art” to me and not some sinister mandated social realism
― What fash heil is this? (wins), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:45 (three years ago) link
Karma policearrest this manhe cannot rock like us
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:45 (three years ago) link
Not quite the same thing, but I'm reminded of this Walter Benjamin quip:
Of all the ways of acquiring books, writing them oneself is regarded as the most praiseworthy method. Writers are really people who write books not because they are poor, but because they are dissatisfied with the books which they could buy but do not like.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 16:45 (three years ago) link