eternal
Hmmm…
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:45 (three years ago) link
Has anyone linked “Rapture” yet?
― (so serious) (DJP), Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:45 (three years ago) link
Maybe I'm an asshole for this response, but
Hiphop was born in 1970s Bronx, New York City. One of the most textbook examples of urban decay, governmental neglect, and economic inequality in modern history. To expect it betray its origins is selfish on the part of the listener.
Maybe the question isn't if there's hiphop "without braggadocio (or those other tropes)", but if you actually like hiphop at all. And it's okay if you don't.
Is there a hiphop equivalent of a Scott Walker album? No. And thank fuck for that.
(To be clear: Scott Walker is fine. But come on.)
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:48 (three years ago) link
I only listen to delta blues by 1920s echt-modernist white dudes.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:50 (three years ago) link
not reading any above comments but ...
you might like pink siifu
― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:53 (three years ago) link
You joke, pomenitul, but plenty of people’s only exposure to the blues comes from later rock 'n' roll musicians, some of them not even American. I would imagine that many listeners might even react negatively to recordings of the original bluesmen (which do different significantly in terms of microtonal inflections or vocal technique), and say that they would prefer to find more music that sounds like those rock 'n' roll musicians instead.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
Right, you've been given plenty of recommendations, let's move on.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link
Austin, hip-hop is now performed around the world by people who might really know nothing about 1970s New York City (or even contemporary African-African struggles, outside of some stereotypes that might even be shockingly racist). So, if those performers are no longer rooted in the same cultural context, then why must their lyrics convey the same concerns? Unless, of course, they are merely repeating received tropes.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link
"write a rap about onions"
https://youtu.be/oqrtoFWglMY
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
xp to Austin, as someone who made a sincere suggestion of B L A C K I E upthread I think “hip-hop like Scott Walker” is not only possible but imo already extant, and as a big Walker fan I’m enthusiastic about this fact + can maybe see a good reason for OP to have made this thread, but more to the point I don’t think either Climate of Hunter or IMAGINE YOUR SELF IN A FREE AND NATURAL WORLD are devoid of sociopolitical context regardless of their lyrical abstraction; “Rawhide” and “Forest of Ex-Lovers” are both songs I’ve come back to in the past few years for exactly this reason. So if what Melomane is looking for, fundamentally, is art that resists any and all attempts to ferret out a worldly human perspective in its origins then no, I don’t think I can help, I don’t think any of us can help, and I think way more than hip-hop is going to be disqualified from this search. Like, idk, try Bernard Parmegiani or something.
― really looking forward to wearily scrolling past all your posts (Champiness), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:05 (three years ago) link
Thank you for your honest engagement with my question, Champiness. I am going through all recommendations in this thread and I will check out B L A C K I E too, and I hope that our shared fondness for Scott Walker means that this artist might connect with me as well.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:06 (three years ago) link
lock thread
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:10 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiW7NbkhbJ0
― llurk, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:13 (three years ago) link
Glad I got in under the wire here lol
― really looking forward to wearily scrolling past all your posts (Champiness), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:18 (three years ago) link
Melomane Ace
― jaymc, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
If one understands a language, one cannot *not* pay attention to what is being said.
FALSE. I ignore lyrics all day every day.
I think this, though,
is an extremely reductive and lame way of thinking about art. Hip-hop is an art form. As such it is not required to be any one thing, or to honor any one thing as "its origins." Especially not after 40+ years. I think the question in the OP is phrased/conceived in a kind of dumb way, but the question itself is not invalid. I suspect there are plenty of black artists who reject ideas about what they're "supposed" to make art about — that's how you get a play like The Colored Museum, or a movie like Bamboozled — and to expect hip-hop artists not to have the same impulses is pretty reductive. The answer to the broader question of "What is fitting subject matter for a hip-hop song?" is "Anything in the universe."
To put it another way, Anthony Braxton grew up in 1940s and 1950s Chicago — an environment of extreme racial oppression. He still turned out to be Anthony Braxton. Why can't present-day Chicago produce an Anthony Braxton who does for hip-hop what the previous AB did for jazz?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
imago already posted my favorite Dalek song, so I guess I'll just endorse it as well!
― Evan, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujrkbeiHUIg
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:21 (three years ago) link
it does reference high scores and bonus balls and such but I think it's more just a description of the experience of being in the arcade rather than the emcee claiming to be exceptional at games/pinball
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:22 (three years ago) link
So I'm a bit late to click but is the thread basically "I want Robert Pollard lyrics as applied to hip hop"?
― Evan, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
LL Cool J's "I'm Not Very Good at Galaga" also recc'ed
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
plenty of people’s only exposure to the blues comes from later rock 'n' roll musicians, some of them not even American. I would imagine that many listeners might even react negatively to recordings of the original bluesmen (which do different significantly in terms of microtonal inflections or vocal technique), and say that they would prefer to find more music that sounds like those rock 'n' roll musicians instead
Oh, you mean like Joe Bonamassa? Because everybody knows how perfectly he represents blues music.
I just wanted to reply again before this gets locked.
Or as the kids used to say, FREE POST
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:23 (three years ago) link
The answer to the broader question of "What is fitting subject matter for a hip-hop song?" is "Anything in the universe."
Anyone who disagrees with this is wrong, but once again, the problem as far as I'm concerned isn't so much Melomane's thought experiment, which deserves our time and attention, as their shaky grounds for dismissing the genre in its current form. Why can't we have it both ways? Why does it have to boil down to some dumb binary opposition?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
what about like "hamilton"?
that's us history told through rap, does that make the cut?
― lurks, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:30 (three years ago) link
Oh, I'm sure he'll find some convoluted way to discount that too, don't worry.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:34 (three years ago) link
beyond disrespectful to create a thread like this now of all times ffs
― dyl, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:36 (three years ago) link
Think it should have been clear that this thread isn't in good faith from the point the op said he'd read the lyrics of To Pimp A Butterfly on Genius but hadn't actually listened to the music.
― Shampoo for my real friends (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:43 (three years ago) link
Yeah you're all too nice, but well done for not rising to the bait.
― thomasintrouble, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:52 (three years ago) link
LL Cool J's "I'm Not Very Good at Galaga" also recc'ed― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, May 31, 2020 4:53 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, May 31, 2020 4:53 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
thread not a total loss
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 19:58 (three years ago) link
the anthony braxton of hip hop would presumably be someone who doesn’t call their work hip hop and isn’t regarded as such by purists either
― no (Left), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:14 (three years ago) link
If LL Cool J had a song called "I'm Not Very Good at Galaga," the verses would be lists of literally everything else he was good at.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:16 (three years ago) link
like Galaxian. a true purist
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
Pomenitul, there is absolutely no reason why you or anyone else here can't "have both", if that is what you want. My question in the OP is meant merely to help me find more music matching my own tastes. If other people enjoy hip-hop with the typical themes, then good for them.
I listen to a lot of 12-tone serialism, a musical approach which many members of classical-music fora think should simply not exist. That it has its own community of fans is something which they either cannot manage to understand, or they simply don't care. Consequently, I myself have always tried to be tolerant of other musical genres. Even if I personally don't get a genre (and there are a number of genres, not just trope-based hip-hop), I am happy that it exists in the marketplace so that other listeners can find music they like. No one here should take my question as disparagement of the hip-hop I have encountered so far, only as a sign that I personally want to listen to something else.
― Melomane, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:24 (three years ago) link
I listen to a lot of 12-tone serialism
The Scott Walker fandom was bad enough, but this is where you and I part ways once and for all. Good luck in your quest. (I don't think 12-tone music shouldn't exist — if I could snap my fingers, I'd get rid of modern country first — but man, it suuuuucks.)
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:28 (three years ago) link
:(
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:32 (three years ago) link
Starting a petition to make "trope-based" classified as a slur.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:35 (three years ago) link
As intriguing as I find hip-hop in terms of the beats or the wordsmithing, I find the braggadocio tiresome: for a performer to rap about how he is a great rapper just seems so lame. I also have no interest in mentions of weed or how life on the streets is tough. Thus, while I like some tracks by e.g. Roots Manuva, those tracks can seem like exceptions among the other material on those same albums.Is there hip-hop completely without the aforementioned tropes? Has any hip-hop artist gone for abstract lyrics that are divorced from the performer’s public persona and his immediate environment? (Is there a hip-hop equivalent of Scott Walker’s Climate of Hunter album, for example?) Or is my wish as unreasonable as someone searching for oldies rock that isn't about dancing or sweethearts, or country music that isn't about pain and drink?So, what recommendations might ILM have for me? Hip-hop is a global phenomenon now, so recommendations in languages other than English are welcome, too.― Melomane, Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
Is there hip-hop completely without the aforementioned tropes? Has any hip-hop artist gone for abstract lyrics that are divorced from the performer’s public persona and his immediate environment? (Is there a hip-hop equivalent of Scott Walker’s Climate of Hunter album, for example?) Or is my wish as unreasonable as someone searching for oldies rock that isn't about dancing or sweethearts, or country music that isn't about pain and drink?
So, what recommendations might ILM have for me? Hip-hop is a global phenomenon now, so recommendations in languages other than English are welcome, too.
― Melomane, Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
this reads like a post that was written in 2001 but when they clicked Submit Post their computer froze and that person just unearthed that old computer in their attic and it sent
― flopson, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:41 (three years ago) link
FPing everyone who responded earnestly to this thread btw
what is FPing btw?
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:43 (three years ago) link
FP'd for asking
("flag post" — and yes, i was joking about FP'ing you)
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:45 (three years ago) link
i wasn't joking
one of the most depressing ilx threads i've ever seen
― flopson, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link
ohh ok. Was sincere fwiw. If there's documentation on this board I haven't found it. Cheers
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
Yeah this strangely reminded me of teenage genre wars on 1.0 Internet.Lol I googled "FP" and urban dictionary said "favorite person" and I was like cool :P
― Nabozo, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link
Melomane - and I say this as life advice, not just because I don't understand your worldview - just for the moment, as a mark of decency, shut the fuck up for a minute. Your "but I have a right to express my preference" stance is reading like some "all lives matter" bullshit in this climate, to the readers of this board. Doesn't matter whether you think it's fair, that's what is happening.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:49 (three years ago) link
I think going to hiphop shows in Japan is the only thing that gave me the ability to think op might be sincere. That scene is such a strange translation/evolution it is easy to hate, you just have to take it on its own merits.
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:51 (three years ago) link
I think OP just lives in a complete bubble, like an armchair anthropologist wondering how he can make the world fit his worldview, dreams and ideals.
― Nabozo, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:53 (three years ago) link
if he is real, I think so too. I just kind of checked out of that aspect and took it as a thought experiment. sympathetic to people finding that disgusting rn
― maffew12, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:54 (three years ago) link
It's a bit the infantile conscious VS gangsta debate as well.
― Nabozo, Sunday, 31 May 2020 20:59 (three years ago) link
I like rappin' without all this braggadocioPlatinum on my wrist and spitroastin' hoes
― peace, man, Sunday, 31 May 2020 21:23 (three years ago) link
idk why OP wouldn't just listen to beats (tens of thousands of which are on soundcloud w 10 listens each, as was pointed out upthred) if OP is so concerned w lyrics
― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 31 May 2020 21:28 (three years ago) link