Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

ACAB

oh, ACAB, right. well, that certainly simplifies a complicated issue.

it's actually not complicated

OK, if there are nice and good and fair police forces in the world I will withdraw my initial remark.

The simplification here is that ACAB does nothing to point to any way out.

If ACAB is a universal and absolute given, then you're left with the unsatisfactory binary situation, where if we have a police force, they cannot be anything but absolute bastards, but if we don't want absolute bastards as police, then, although we may wish to have laws, we can never enforce them.

idk how many of the cops in america are not bastards but they're sure as hell overshadowed by a) the ones who are and b) the structural bastardry of american policing itself

as i say, this does not preclude some cops being people of honour and decency or whatever, even in the line of duty, but when the very tactics and instructions being handed out are vile, it is probably very hard to maintain one's humanity

idk. i tend to have quite a 'sympathy to all' viewpoint on such issues but the stuff that police get away with every day in all of our nations is appalling and it surely indicates a profound defect in how policing works, as well as a tendency for psychopathic fuckheads to wind up in the force

as for what the solution is, please don't ask me

joining the police should require extremely robust mental health/empathy screening is probably the first step

one helpful thing would be to not give them fucking military-grade hardware, making them think that they're a besieged occupying force instead of public servants

The @HouseDemocrats should censure Tom Cotton and Matt Gaetz and remove them from committees. And any other congressperson who advocates for the killing of protesters. pic.twitter.com/YpkCIQYiRa

— Tyler King (@TylerAKing) June 1, 2020

I found this a great read on why 1) yes, ACAB, 2) how we can live post-cop
link

(i know Cotton is a Senator, but wanted to show their shitty tweets in one place)

joining the police should require extremely robust mental health/empathy screening is probably the first step

my gf was just saying this, and my counter was that a lot of ppl who are fine, decent humans when joining the force become violent, reprehensible assholes after spending some time as a cop.

I assume that's true for the military and politics as well. And probably lots of other professions, because humans are terrible.

fuck troops and politicians too

well,, that's settled. what problem shall we solve next?

xxxxxposts ums

i'm really sorry. :( that's what i was afraid of. that is intensely scary. hope you and your family and neighbors are hanging in there as best as you can.

Yeah I think it's inherent to being given a gun and the authority to use it that it will turn a good number of people into sadists

I think if you're expecting ILX to solve the problems of the world you're in for a disappointment.

(xp) You don't even need a gun.

humans are terrible is a way worse flattening of power and reality than acab

I mostly know good humans. None of them are cops. Therefore no humans are cops.

joining the police should require extremely robust mental health/empathy screening is probably the first step

apologies in advance for pro wrestling content outside of ILW but

I’m a former police officer. I joined the force because I believed the only real way to bring change to policing is from within. I remember being told “empathy will get you killed.” No, lack of empathy allows you to kill. We have to change policing from within. #GeorgeFloyd

— Mustafa Ali / Adeel Alam (@AliWWE) May 27, 2020

xps I meant "gun" more like as a shorthand for "the permission to use force."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr1WwyKDFQs

Sorry I think that was questionably sourced. Not sure what the real deal but he isn't an FBI agent.

my counter was that a lot of ppl who are fine, decent humans when joining the force become violent, reprehensible assholes after spending some time as a cop.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, June 1, 2020 12:03 PM (forty-four minutes ago)

we could argue over and post links to articles about what % of cops start out as decent people and what % began as sociopathic bullies but ... this is true. It's a structural issue. There is an us vs. them mentality. When your job is (supposedly) dealing with preventing bad people from doing bad things, there is a tendency to see only the bad in people and the bad things they are capable of doing.

I think this is related to industrialization and the professionalization of various social roles. (not saying we need to go back to some pseudo-utopian agrarian society or whatever) ... the concept of specialization ... the worker as cog, the cop as cog in the repressive state apparatus, but because they identify with copness, because they are full-time cops, and their material support comes from that identity and affiliation.

https://www.wfla.com/news/national/george-floyd-died-of-asphyxia-family-ordered-autopsy-says/

Performed by Michael Baden and Allecia Wilson. Baden did the Eric Garner autopsy as well.

xp to sarahell otm

for awhile my friend had to deal with prosecuting fraud for his job at music supply/instrument company. even that bittered him on ppl in general; everyone was a scammer, trying to pull one over on him.

my brain is mushy from three straight days of militaristic sounding cop noise ... but the other night this whole specialization / professionalization thing really stood out for me, as I watched this white guy in a truck, who I'd thought was an undercover cop, just sit and watch people loot the 7-11 across the street for about 30 minutes. ... Then I realized he was just the head of security for the Whole Foods on the other side of the street, and dealing with looters and the 7-11 wasn't his job. His job was to protect the sanctity of Whole Foods, and anything other than that, dude didn't have to do jackshit.

I had an ex-colleague that joined the police with that "reform from the inside' mindset. He lasted a few months, said the task was completely impossible and he could feel the negative energy creeping in. He didn't say he thought he would become like them, but that their energy vastly outmatched his (and he was an energetic fighter type)

in summary, the books and articles about replacing the current police department structure in US cities with alternative structures are otm and that is the most likely way that this problem could be effectively dealt with

...which of course means most of the US will go in the complete opposite direction

sarahell otm

My uncle was a good cop doing important detective work, and joined the Minneapolis police in 1964. Because he was film-star good looking and had a way with communication, they sent him to work in Morals. He was witness to many harrowing things at work - homicide, human trafficking, abuse cases, evil pimps and gangsters - and he never fired a weapon on the job. He helped journalists get stories about police corruption and spoke up when he disagreed with the direction of travel. Once, he had the ACLU’s lawyers defend him from a suspension for criticising his chief in public. He developed victim restitution schemes still used today. Outside of work he was an environmental conservationist who liked to hunt and fish, who raised endangered waterfowl species from chicks to repopulate lakes, marshes and woodlands. Of course he internalised a lot of the things he saw on duty and wound up drinking himself to death. That was 25 years ago; I miss him and his daughter, my best cousin who died in February. I can’t imagine the level of heartbreak both would have over what’s happening. And although I had no idea which politicians won his vote (he never said because he had to work with whoever won without favour) I know he’d be appalled by 45, because he called ‘80s Donnie a dope. That was his ultimate insult.

nobody cares

Oh, and he was born and raised in the city of Minneapolis. As a married family man, he only lived a mile from the city line.

literally any cop who thinks like that now is either dead, fired, or retired

Fuck you, sleeve.

I'm fucking out for a while, removing bookmark

thanks for your one millionth personal bragging session, great input

xpost That clip of the (probably not FBI) guy getting IDd by the police is also apparently a year or two old.

louisville police chief fired

Is it true that in some US states you can become a cop after only 6 months of training? In here you have to go through 3 year police school to become one, with psychological screening etc. Not saying that Finnish cops are that great, there's plenty of racism and fascist tendencies among them, something that I've come across personally in demonstrations throughout the years... But it would seem that a longer, more rigorous training would at least weed out some of the worst cases before they can become cops?

My uncle was a million times the person you are and I included his story to underline how the job can poison good people to death, especially the ones who wish to serve the entire public. If that comes off as bragging, that’s a you problem.

Reports of looting all over the north side and north suburbs of Chicago this afternoon. According to what I've read on Twitter so far, they are pretty much all really well coordinated and over very quickly, often the same make and model cars being described at the scenes.

avg police training is 5 mos I think

suzy, that's how I interpreted your post too, thanks. sleeve, fuck you.

uhhhh https://t.co/CpEDqBcIX9 pic.twitter.com/dboAwMeAZ1

— Josh Fruhlinger (@jfruh) June 1, 2020

I know it is a rare honor, but I say this with all sincerity, fuck you sleeve.