agree with imago about Brexit. any left wing argument for Brexit as a positive force for devolution and decentralisation discounts the fact it leaves UK wide open for public services and the food industry to be picked over by whichever private firm is willing to pay for it. in a perfect world, there would be an argument for it, but the libertarian fuckheads pulling those strings aren't going to let that one slide
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Saturday, 6 June 2020 21:44 (three years ago) link
please add "internecine UK politics thread spinoff drama" to thread title
― an, uh, razor of love (sic), Saturday, 6 June 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
obviously this is a drunken late-night meta-thread that hopefully won't reach 700 posts by noon on tuesday but if it's specific example you want, i've already provided a couple.
and ftr this isn't a thread where i call out berniebros for not planning on voting biden. not voting biden is a thoroughly coherent position and a trump second term is a legitimate accelerationist gambit (albeit a flawed one)
this is more a thread for left-wingers slowly being radicalised into twats and turning on their own
a good example that i have referred to extensively before is the ongoing demonisation and out-of-context quoting of angela rayner, deputy labour leader and voter on the 'correct' (i.e. punching-up) side of more or less every bill brought before parliament. a couple of rhetorical bum notes have been amplified into 'clearly a bad person, a melt and maybe a racist, ok karen' etc etc
shall we see what she's up to
I am volunteering at @OldhamAngels tonight and l want to thank @ahageog @chs_bronz_dofe @chsupdates for the kind donations of sleeping bags they will be put to use immediately, we really appreciate the support, big thanks 👍 pic.twitter.com/q7wjd6YLxA— 🌈 Angela Rayner 🌈 (@AngelaRayner) June 6, 2020
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
another left-wing brainworm: brexit is completely, 100% fine. maybe even a good idea. the EU is a neoliberal institution that is falling apart anyway after all
Brexit is bad and the EU is a neoliberal institution that is falling apart. How d'ye like them apples?
― Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
i mean i kind of agree
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:01 (three years ago) link
how did she vote on the welfare act again louis? I know it doesn't affect you, but surely you've got enough imago-ination to work out that people who suffered the consequences of the welfare act don't see her as left-wing or a friend, despite the usual pol PR and lip service that often impresses you so much.
― calzino, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
which one of these was that then
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25429/angela_rayner/ashton-under-lyne/divisions?policy=6670
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:27 (three years ago) link
yep she is one of the 184 who abstained on the vote you fucking muppet, I don't even need to check.
― calzino, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:32 (three years ago) link
politics is just a game to you and fuck this whole thread you clueless fucking hooray, get back to your golf course you spoilt prick!
― calzino, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:34 (three years ago) link
oh this one
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html
we all know what happened next: corbyn took over and some mps, including many of those hated 184 (who abstained along with the whip), bought into it
Harriet Harman, the interim leader, had urged Labour MPs to send a message to the electorate that they were listening to concerns over welfare payments by abstaining on the welfare bill after voting for an amendment that set out the party’s objections to the bill.
as ever, the truth is more complicated. sure, all of them should have voted against it rather than for a poxy amendment, but they were losing in any case
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
This is just the British politics thread I think.
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:40 (three years ago) link
calzino idk at which point you morphed from beloved sprayer of rhetoric to unavoidable foghorn but it's the fact i'm on your fucking side that galls the most
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
calz has already called imago a posho we just need Alfie to embed a tweet or three and we’ll have all the flavors
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
This was always going to end in tears.
― Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:42 (three years ago) link
imago all love and respect but yelling at people that you’re on their side is a head-scratcher at the best of times
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:42 (three years ago) link
we just need a world where politicians don't punch down, because until that happens, the left will punch itself in the face over and over and over again
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:43 (three years ago) link
So until then?
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:49 (three years ago) link
i guess we punch each other
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:50 (three years ago) link
That’s the spirit
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:51 (three years ago) link
well if we just haven't suffered enough misery in the last 6 months this fucking simpering poltroon comes along with this thread of ill-informed concern trolling bullshit. seriously go fuck yourself dickhead
― calzino, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:52 (three years ago) link
calz in the spirit of not-punching i know v well that your own circumstances have been ground down and attacked at every turn by the selfish evil of neoliberals and corporatist political parties and i entirely share your anguish that britain does not have better, either in actuality or in store, but we are all fighting this impossible enemy and a bit less of the 'die soon keir you melt cunt' and a bit more of the 'how do we pressure labour to retain corbynist policy goals, perhaps by starting a splinter group, any ideas' would be constructive if not cathartic
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:55 (three years ago) link
Well don't you try expressing those aims on the uk politics thread rather than starting worthless dead end threads like this that only serve to antagonise me when I'm pissed? For someone who has had such an expensive education you are quite thick.
― calzino, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:00 (three years ago) link
Fucking state of this thread.
― gyac, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:00 (three years ago) link
I, for one, am flabbergasted that it's already come to this.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:02 (three years ago) link
I repeatedly ask what the plan is! At the moment there doesn't seem to be one
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:03 (three years ago) link
If only you had all revived the appropriate quarantine thread:
Post here when you want to shit on someone passive aggressively until they see it and start a fight with you ITT
― pomenitul, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:03 (three years ago) link
Who seriously gives a damn? What is with these poxy threads where people take pre-existing beefs to pontificate at length about stuff that isn’t a problem? Anvil took a swipe at the greens, who cares? And once again, why is anyone angry at politics on ilx being tasked with finding immediate solutions to the problem? This is absolute nonsense and a big part of the reason why I just post in ukpol, because it’s better the devil you know and at least people are largely on the same page there.
― gyac, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:07 (three years ago) link
I guess deep down I think that the hard-left and the centre-left (Overton window be damned; I'd be regarded as hard-left by most British people but I'll gladly stake a claim to the centre-left) need to somehow overlook their differences and work together to have even a chance of defeating the bastards. I'm starting this fight as a way to confront what divides us and hopefully heal. An olive-branch disguised as a punch. idk
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:11 (three years ago) link
obviously deep down i do like everyone who's lined up to punch back itt so i do feel a bit sad, 'end in tears' otm
― imago, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:13 (three years ago) link
this is probably hideously embarrassing isn't it
https://media.giphy.com/media/k7FxDbLPbsIEU1GR1j/giphy.gif
― Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:17 (three years ago) link
die soon keir you melt cunt
― 1312 (Left), Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:55 (three years ago) link
a country where corbynism passes for "hard left" needs to be put out of its misery
― 1312 (Left), Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:58 (three years ago) link
oh sorry I thought the thread was over but non-sockpuppet ilx user Left had yet to use the word "melt"
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link
oh nm I see we're quoting ironically as you were
ironically i'm serious
― 1312 (Left), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:06 (three years ago) link
fuck the racist capitalist piece of shit labour party forever btw
― 1312 (Left), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:14 (three years ago) link
maybe the left would be slightly less shit if it wasn't constantly demanding uncritical support for its self appointed leadership in the name of avoiding "left wing infighting" or what have you. this goes for keir or jezza or party drones or lefty pundits or whoever
― 1312 (Left), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:30 (three years ago) link
ps abolish britain
― 1312 (Left), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:31 (three years ago) link
"a country where corbynism passes for "hard left" needs to be put out of its misery"
well this is it, but the thread-starter lives in a parallel universe to most of us plebs where politics is just a message board game, absolutely unconcerned with challenging the current status quo, because he has no motivation to do so and likes to talk a lot of bollox.
― calzino, Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
do people think the greens are a left party?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
also are american's complaining that there's more than one UK politics thread bc
― plax (ico), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
Yes, that's a bit rich.
― Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Sunday, 7 June 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link
It wasn't really even a swipe at the greens, it was obvious tongue in cheek tomfoolery with soupcon of skullduggery just for a little spice. I don't even really have a particular opinion of Greens.
On Brexit I'm not sure who it is thats stating the opinion? More accurate is "regardless of whether Remain is good or bad, Remain lost (and on a constituency level very heavily). Fighting a losing battle is a poor use of political capital, especially when a relative compromise was on offer all along".
But neither Leave nor Remain are brainworms, they're opinions/beliefs. Something we disagree with isn't a brainworm, thats diluting the term to the point of meaninglessness.
That said, there certainly are LW brainworms, but lets try and be more specific and less abstract
― anvil, Sunday, 7 June 2020 05:50 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:31 (three years ago) link
Fantastic, a thread for mixing a bit of posturing mb masturbation and beating on the politically homeless, a real antidote to all the prevalent despair and death. Bookmark added.
― calzino, Sunday, 7 June 2020 08:29 (three years ago) link
just enjoy the music imo
― rolling my optrex (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 7 June 2020 08:42 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snnCKVFzjHE
― rolling my optrex (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 7 June 2020 08:43 (three years ago) link
which brings us by an ineluctable process of association to CLASSIC COMEDY ON ILX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=almMI-cm7eE
― rolling my optrex (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 7 June 2020 08:44 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z6yh9SBybo
I would just blow it off but I have heard groups of belligerent looking white guys here in ATL chanting it, in this mostly black city. Similar feels as when I was in LDN early last year and was a bit shocked to see a gang of similar belligerent wypipo chanting some hooligan nonsense (I assume?) while marching through a tube station -- maybe Paddington? Isn't that a pretty big one?
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:06 (two years ago) link
ive heard it from wrestling crowds and it really ruins the show, gotta say
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link
xpost
However
― gyac, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:00 (one year ago) link― mardheamac (gyac), Monday, December 27, 2021 7:26 PM
Point taken, and no personal jabs intended.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:10 (two years ago) link
There was a game on probably.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:11 (two years ago) link
idk some of these dudes on social media (like they are almost entirely 99% cis white males) still seem to have this nerdphobia from childhood ... like informed by Lord of the Flies, where there is an aversion to being Piggy or Piggy-adjacent. So, aligning with MAGA-bros feels okay, because they are very un-Piggy. ... The dudes I know personally that have this affliction tend to either work in hospitality or have tech jobs.
― sarahell, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:11 (two years ago) link
like, if you want to be un-Piggy-like, go out and become a plumber or work construction or do actual boots-on-the-ground activism for what you believe in
― sarahell, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:13 (two years ago) link
Iirc some dude named Brandon won a NASCAR race, the crowd was chanting Fuck Joe Biden and a reporter was interviewing the guy thinking they were saying Let’s Go Brandon. So yeah it was kinda chuckle worthy on day 1 but as usual conservatives, including GOP congressmen, decided to make it their entire identity for the next four months
― frogbs, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:14 (two years ago) link
My friend who is not vaxxed says she might take the Novavax vaccine that's in development since it's not mRNA based. This is not the first time I've heard that line of reasoning but it's like ... have you noticed that the mRNA vaccines are working pretty well? Sigh
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:14 (two years ago) link
Mom: “no politics at Christmas this year”Me: “no problem, I’ll just bring gifts” pic.twitter.com/JzOwg8wqcu— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) December 25, 2021
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:15 (two years ago) link
xp
― sarahell, Monday, December 27, 2021 8:13 PM
Uh yeah all power to the people but I've recently been doing painting work and can confirm that it sucks, and I still feel like Piggy.
There is DEFINITELY a strong bullying component to the whole online bro culture tho.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:16 (two years ago) link
Thing is, we live in organized societies, and we are adults ... Piggy is okay here. It's totally cool to be Piggy.
― sarahell, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:21 (two years ago) link
I would just blow it off but I have heard groups of belligerent looking white guys here in ATL chanting it, in this mostly black city.
Joe Biden's white (and racist), though? Seems like some white-on-white crime.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:32 (two years ago) link
The responses to stupid and angry are, of course, equally stupid, which from what I've seen is where "social media leftists" are amused
With these economic numbers, I gotta say it, too. #ThankYouBrandon!— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) November 5, 2021
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:36 (two years ago) link
we get it you think it’s cool and funny
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:37 (two years ago) link
I have no idea what being piggy or un-piggy means?
― JacobSanders, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:42 (two years ago) link
I just ate too much Chex mix, I'm piggy
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 27 December 2021 20:43 (two years ago) link
Character Analysis PiggyPiggy is the intellectual with poor eyesight, a weight problem, and asthma. He is the most physically vulnerable of all the boys, despite his greater intelligence. Piggy represents the rational world. By frequently quoting his aunt, he also provides the only female voice.Piggy's intellect benefits the group only through Ralph; he acts as Ralph's advisor. He cannot be the leader himself because he lacks leadership qualities and has no rapport with the other boys. Piggy also relies too heavily on the power of social convention. He believes that holding the conch gives him the right to be heard. He believes that upholding social conventions get results.
Piggy's intellect benefits the group only through Ralph; he acts as Ralph's advisor. He cannot be the leader himself because he lacks leadership qualities and has no rapport with the other boys. Piggy also relies too heavily on the power of social convention. He believes that holding the conch gives him the right to be heard. He believes that upholding social conventions get results.
― sarahell, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:45 (two years ago) link
there is also my unwritten thesis about how in contemporary society, we are either Piggy or Frankies (i.e. Frankie Teardrop) and all rotting in hell
― sarahell, Monday, 27 December 2021 20:47 (two years ago) link
If we only had a royal family in amerka to instill and maintain a moral center and social rectitude
― antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Monday, 27 December 2021 21:38 (two years ago) link
There might be something to the Piggy hostility but it's hard to chalk up to nerdphobia - I will venture that less than 10 Jacobin subscribers were Prom King or Queen, American leftists are nerdy as hell - or lol 'aligning with MAGA' rather than an entirely natural socialist hostility to the idea that 'upholding social conventions get results.' American norms and social conventions are reactionary and respecting them gets us nowhere but closer to the apocalypse.
The only thing the British have gotten right in the modern era is their hatred and open celebration of the death of people like Thatcher. We're still in the stage of having important people who should know better talking about Colin Powell as anything other than a war criminal and tweeting about how the GOP used to be better and they mean the Reagan-era GOP.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 27 December 2021 21:46 (two years ago) link
There really haven't been many people like Thatcher tbf (and thank the Lord for that).
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Monday, 27 December 2021 22:30 (two years ago) link
American norms and social conventions are reactionary and respecting them gets us nowhere but closer to the apocalypse
Unless you meant to specify political norms and conventions, the only ideology this conforms to is pure contrarianism for its own sake.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 27 December 2021 22:39 (two years ago) link
I will venture that less than 10 Jacobin subscribers were Prom King or Queen, American leftists are nerdy as hell
Nobody hates nerds more than someone who grew up a nerd and denies they still are one.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 27 December 2021 22:42 (two years ago) link
I do know a couple of people who are at least ostentatiously left wing (one had that COR-BYN t-shirt styled like RUN-DMC and had it as her profile pic on FB for a while) but unfortunately/worryingly (one is trained as a nurse) they are both anti-vax and one even posted an Eric Clapton video, favourably, not long ago. I haven't actually spoken to them since the start of the pandemic and our FB messages well I've just avoided the whole subject other than mentioning I had covid recently (at least she didn't say I was a crisis actor and the whole thing is made up). am not really sure what to do about this.
― bovarism, Monday, 27 December 2021 22:57 (two years ago) link
rather than an entirely natural socialist hostility to the idea that 'upholding social conventions get results.'
the social conventions in this context are things like "not killing people just because you can get away with it" and "not only those that hunt the food get to eat it" -- it's generally code for "organized civilization" ... it isn't really socialist hostility as I read it, but an aversion to "working within the system" because not only is the system damaged, but it would entail having to learn/know/master certain technical and bureaucratic topics that most dudes raging on the internet don't have the patience for tbh
honestly, the whole thing reminds me of the nerdy dudes I hung with in high school who played D&D and X-Men RPGs -- social media is a role playing game.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 28 December 2021 03:44 (two years ago) link
But ugh, what a role
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 28 December 2021 04:11 (two years ago) link
What was this thread about - as started by poster Imago?
Puzzling.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 28 December 2021 11:36 (two years ago) link
Who knows/cares, honestly
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 28 December 2021 11:39 (two years ago) link
Sorry to monopolize the thread but the same guy is now on about how NYC with all its restrictions has lots of COVID right now so see, why were we listening to the so-called "authorities"? You're the only people I can complain to about this, I am NOT going to get into it with him on FB.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 1 January 2022 19:44 (two years ago) link
Remind again why you have to see it on fb
― pandmac (darraghmac), Saturday, 1 January 2022 19:46 (two years ago) link
Or post about this one guy here. Defriend him, who cares
― mardheamac (gyac), Saturday, 1 January 2022 19:49 (two years ago) link
idk I feel like many of us have our own "this one guy" and commiseration can be nice?
― sarahell, Saturday, 1 January 2022 20:13 (two years ago) link
Sure but there’s a point where you’re putting yourself through stuff voluntarily for unclear reasons and if it’s that distressing just mute or unfriend.
― mardheamac (gyac), Saturday, 1 January 2022 20:16 (two years ago) link
Boundaries etc.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 1 January 2022 20:33 (two years ago) link
oh, for sure! it's just sometimes unclear how distressing the things ilxors complain about actually are.
― sarahell, Saturday, 1 January 2022 20:59 (two years ago) link
the unclear family
― pandmac (darraghmac), Saturday, 1 January 2022 21:26 (two years ago) link
lol
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 January 2022 21:32 (two years ago) link