I think one of the key things is to have "working groups" that actually work.
― sarahell, Monday, 15 June 2020 14:19 (three years ago) link
I have also IRL experienced people with lack of knowledge and expertise being given positions of authority in our current society so ... idk
This could just be an argument for replacing those people, though.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 15 June 2020 14:56 (three years ago) link
It's a systemic problem
― sarahell, Monday, 15 June 2020 15:43 (three years ago) link
I guess the only way I could see anarchy as the solution to that problem is if you think that it discredits the idea of positions of authority altogether
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 15 June 2020 16:01 (three years ago) link
How the media portrays anarchists: Okay guys let’s smash some shit!Actual anarchists: Okay so it’s been 8 hours but we finally reached consensus on the use of the word “guys” in meetings
Actual anarchists: Okay so it’s been 8 hours but we finally reached consensus on the use of the word “guys” in meetings
I'm pretty sure both sets of self-described anarchists exist. But the first set should more properly be called nihilists who have been drawn to the label "anarchist" by the media's portrayal of anarchists.
The second set is familiar to me from my wife's descriptions of growing up in the Quaker meeting, which is even less hierarchical than the Quaker church. As she witnessed it, even the simplest decisions took forever because some members just liked to hear their own voices and enjoyed having a captive audience who were required to listen respectfully to their interminable dithering over minutiae.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
Second set much more common ime
― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:02 (three years ago) link
Tho "this asshole just wants to hear himself talk" sort of a universal plague from the boardroom to the classroom to branch meetings
― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:04 (three years ago) link
It's a systemic problem.
― budo jeru, Monday, 15 June 2020 19:17 (three years ago) link
I like the first set of anarchists they sound cool
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:19 (three years ago) link
There's no initiation rite, no fees, not even a clubhouse or a handshake. Just go out and smash things and you're in the club.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:24 (three years ago) link
You don't even have to leave home. You could smash your own stuff!
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 15 June 2020 19:25 (three years ago) link
But in a consensus organization, they have the power to delay decisions indefinitely, where in a hierarchical or majority-based organization, they will eventually be kicked to the curb.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 15 June 2020 21:07 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
https://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/images/history/anarchistspeechcartoon.PNG
― no (Left), Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:26 (three years ago) link
for the record the concept or state that i take the sheldon wolin excerpt in the OP to be describing is identified in its final two words, not in its use of “anarchy” near the beginning, tho an opponent of anarchy might argue they are identical. (hobbes himself of course had lived under one state, but even in my ambivalent opinion not the other.) while irl anarchic models seek to incorporate/address many conflicting needs and desires i don’t think they suffer from the specific epistemological chaos described, where there is simply no fundamental agreement on what is true or valued— participation in the process itself; a commitment to the refusal of force; the specifics of whatever system of consensus is used (possibly itself a kind of “irresistible power”? idk) would seem to preclude that. to say “yes but attempting to scale these models up would result in the political breakdown described” is of course valid but a distinct argument going beyond what’s in the excerpt. anyway i am hardly a hobbesian but i think about “like some macabre companion” a lot.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:52 (three years ago) link
key consensus topic for today that took almost 30 minutes: shall we allocate costs per square foot of gross floor area or some other method and why
however, our process for choosing and acquiring meeting snacks is exceptionally efficient
― sarahell, Thursday, 4 March 2021 07:49 (three years ago) link
wait, the pettiest consensus topic that took disproportionately too long to resolve was: whether to use the sort function in excel to organize a spreadsheet or just duplicate the current spreadsheet and delete things we don't need
― sarahell, Thursday, 4 March 2021 07:52 (three years ago) link
I support the latter option
― I like signing up to dead sites (sleeve), Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:10 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 5 March 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
let the record show 16-12 in favor with 16 abstentions
this is gonna take a while to reach a consensus on, should we get takeout?
― I like signing up to dead sites (sleeve), Friday, 5 March 2021 00:14 (three years ago) link
― sarahell, Monday, June 15, 2020 2:19 PM (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink
I have done paid organizing and I have done mutual aid and I am here to tell you this is otm. My kingdom for a working group that actually works.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Friday, 5 March 2021 00:27 (three years ago) link
should we get takeout?
First, we need to agree on this, then on what kind(s) to order, if any.
― Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Friday, 5 March 2021 03:54 (three years ago) link
okay, has anyone updated the spreadsheet with the members and their dietary restrictions? That would be helpful in deciding
― sarahell, Friday, 5 March 2021 05:50 (three years ago) link
stuff about worker owned co-ops:
https://www.ztangi.org/report-on-a-worker-cooperative-closure/
a response to the first thing:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQlZnYogSFvFshZsxLYFGf7kcpUkRPWTT0xqAk2TzQ1MN9TimqE-DbDS1oE9HgAZAEItXRJ96b7xpLD/pub?urp=gmail_link
― sarahell, Thursday, 23 March 2023 19:35 (one year ago) link