GODARD vs. FASSBINDER

I like the attention drawn to filmmaking with Contempt, the broken fourth wall. I also like the clear straightforward story, the references to The Odyssey, the meta-presence of Fritz Lang, and the sense of European cinema is being subsumed by Hollywood

and especially the fascinating view of inner emotional struggles and the depiction of a relationship slowly disintegrating and ultimately destroyed by a seemingly inconsequential decision in a single moment

Godard would be a minor figure if you just took the 12 films from 1980-1995. They both have fallow periods, weak films.

I know this was a side-point in a two-day-old argument, but 80-90 is Godard's best overall run to me. I'm surprised to see it called fallow! I know it will never have the popularity of his 60s work (which I also love), but in particular the first 4 80s films he made are among his greatest achievements.

I love these takes.

I should've added a couple caveats: Every Man for Himself is one of his best films by a long shot. I don't know what it is but there's a magic in it, that the statement "my second first film" makes a lot of sense to me having seen it a couple times. that first shot of blue sky, the movie really does feel like the beginning of a new brilliant period, musical and moving but still experimental and unburdened by commercial compromise.

And then he loses me until Histoire(s). But, second caveat- I haven't seen Passion or King Lear. and Histoire(s) is obviously his masterpiece.

Carmen, Detective, Hail Mary, Keep Your Right Up.... gun

I really like the short Changer d'Image included on the Carmen disc tho.

I think that Passion is his best from this period, fwiw. Really unique and beautiful, kind of a counterpart to Contempt.

as someone personally fond of king lear -- watched on arrival in the 80s, rewatched a couple of years back at the NFT -- i doubt it will particularly change yr mind FB: it is extremely cryptic and tbh somewhat more pomo in an 80s manner than he generally is (the main threading story is him trying to get production funding for a version of lear, with JLG in the role of the "fool"); when i saw in first i marvelled most of all at the clarity and detail of its sound (i'd never heard anything like it at the time) but the ordinary world has very much caught up with this and it's hard to discern now or be so impressed i think by this aspect; the second time i saw it it was full of elements i absolutely didn't remember from the first time (and the elements i did remember were much less to the fore than i remembered)

i still prefer it to passion and carmen and such but i think it's a bagatelle really

obviously i need to see it a third time in a cinema

i faintly remembered i'd posted all this before some time in the v distant past: it was just over two months ago ffs

i saw king lear when it came out (1987, packed showing at the london film festival) and didn't really get it but remember being struck by the sound detail, which just seemed amazing compared to any other film

saw it again at an nft godard season maybe three years back (chair alph will recall): found it easier to follow but less remarkable, and i guess the world of cinema sound has by now long caught up with late-80s godard, bcz i could no longer hear that element, or anyway why i thought it. it was full of lots of small things i enjoyed which i thought would have stuck with me from my earlier watch (but i'd totally forgotten) as well as some things i now felt confidently enough a lol cineaste to be mildly irritated by

probably i need to see it again to calibrate properly: i don't think actually his gift is in bringing his mind to the canonic classics of literature tho

― mark s, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 20:45 (two months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Both the most influential and well known directors of their respective countries

Surely not! German New Wave fellow travellers Wim Wenders and Werner Herzog are WAY more well known than Fassbinder. Influence is murkier territory but if you count the Weimar republic he's got some serious competition.

Die Dritte Generation is kinda bootleg Godard.

Godard would be a minor figure if you just took the 12 films from 1980-1995. They both have fallow periods, weak films.

I know this was a side-point in a two-day-old argument, but 80-90 is Godard's best overall run to me. I'm surprised to see it called fallow! I know it will never have the popularity of his 60s work (which I also love), but in particular the first 4 80s films he made are among his greatest achievements.

― intheblanks, Thursday, 18 June 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I didn't say anything to specifically address this but yes it's quite a rich period. I don't particularly Carmen or Detective but that's only because it's a worse copy of the 60s work.

As it is I love (as I said about two months back or so): Helas Pour moi, Histoire(s), JLG/JLG, which are up there with his best work. Also I've yet to see a lot of it (which is also true of early Fassbinder).

(xp) True, Herzog's still making films and is kind of celebrity too these days.

high time he ate some more shoes imo

Die Dritte Generation is kinda bootleg Godard.

― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, June 20, 2020 6:59 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

he even uses the gunshot sound effect from Masculin/Feminin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixR342I9xkk

mark that sounds a lot like his segment from Aria, I think that was even the same year as King Lear, 1987? it's just a bunch of JCVD lookin' dudes pumping iron

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

fassbinder was sexxxier

I find Goddard films quite annoying, and every Fassbinder I've seen is great.

https://d2v9ipibika81v.cloudfront.net/uploads/sites/21/15small-Fassbinder-and-Brad-Davis.jpg

https://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Godard-1536x864.jpg

fassbinder was sexxxier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WFX4tWm9OM

Fassbinder. World On A Wire is the best film ever made

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Booo

Man, I couldn’t hang with World On A Wire. Made it an hour in before I was done with the office chats. Will try again soon.

Also, lol at the results.

RWF better at show business, tho Godard can do that when he tries.

Both indispensable. It depends what you value as an individual viewer on a particular day.

(Both have made films I would technically consider torture. Querelle and a lot of JLG's '80s.)

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Monday, June 15, 2020 4:10 PM (four months ago) bookmarkflaglink

As with many threads, I made this one mostly to see what Morbs would say. He's right--not about Querelle, though.

I'm surprised at querelle singled out in that post. I would have thought it at the very least one of his most fun.

Fuck, I saw this thread before the other one....

Man, I couldn’t hang with World On A Wire. Made it an hour in before I was done with the office chats. Will try again soon.

― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee)

Def try again