Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

but they infected us too

In case you were wondering- this is a high number

32% of U.S. households missed their July housing payments https://t.co/fR9ZExbH1M

— ≡l≡v≡nth (@3L3V3NTH) July 8, 2020

the number of evictions going through right now must be astronomical

Evictions for non-payment of rent are effectively still under a moratorium in Seattle, I’m pretty sure. (That is, financial hardship due to covid was made an acceptable defense for tenants in eviction proceedings.) no idea what the impact of that all is.

it's gonna be a scary fucking winter

are some federal student loan payments still suspended?

honestly i've been to terrified to check for months, and the service i've been forced to use is so terrible at notifying me about anything that i've heard nothing about it from them either.

Can someone explain the argument against a rent and mortgage moratorium until the end of COVID?

the people who own the property would make less money

so it's up to the people who don't own the property to lose money instead

Ask not...

I mean, there would presumably be cascading effects throughout the entire economy and financial system of a magnitude never seen before. But I imagine/hope that fed action could stem some of that?

It probably makes more sense for govt action to cover mortgages/rent on the front end and/or backstop them on the back end rather than just say "you don't have to pay and someone else gets stuck holding the bag"

in the UK a 3-month eviction ban has been extended until the end of August.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ban-on-evictions-extended-by-2-months-to-further-protect-renters

but.... what then? there is no way that people are going to be able to afford the arrears. the government just says landlords and tenants should 'work together'. LOLLLLL

the big problem that a lot of people here are fearing is that once the moratorium ends, people will be stuck with too much debt that needs to be repaid right away ... so there are people arguing, and I believe even legislation being proposed, to forgive rent/mortgage payments during the covid period. ... mortgages are somewhat easier to deal with from a policy perspective because the concept of "refinancing" already exists ... the outstanding payments could just be spread out through the loan period or the loan could be extended.

Rent is tougher ... but also more crucial because it affects mostly low-income or lower-income people compared to owners. ... I feel like one "moderate" approach would be to give rental property owners the equivalent of PPP loans to replace the lost rental income, and extend the moratorium on rent for like, a long time, at least until the end of the year. My more progressive approach would be to limit the class of property owners eligible for these loans based on income -- like, if we are talking about huge corporations ... no loans ... if we are talking about the little old lady who makes $30k off her rental and her only other income is social security ... then, yes.

in Florida, there are 2,600+ evictions pending in the court systems, and hundreds of evictions that have been approved by a judge, merely awaiting a Sheriff to serve them once the moratorium ends. like they'll probably show up the day the moratorium ends to remove citizens

here there are a handful of exceptions to the moratorium and we're starting to see landlords go about using them ...however, with the fact that it is summer plus lots of people are out of work, one of the handful of events going on in the city are caravans to the houses of these shitty landlords to protest their shitty behavior.

Are banks renegotiating/pausing mortgages for landlords?

if we are talking about huge corporations ... no loans ... if we are talking about the little old lady who makes $30k off her rental and her only other income is social security ... then, yes.

bingo & thank u

But huge corporations will be able to hedge anyway, and won't be badly harmed. So give them the loans, and let renters have the satisfaction of seeing small landlords like the little old lady crushed into the gutter

Not sure what the word “hedge” means in that sentence

https://gothamist.com/news/crown-heights-landlord-building-evictions-protest-brooklyn

The landlord — who tenants say evicted them and moved his own stuff in last night — is standing in the doorway, as tenants and protesters curse him.

“You’re evicting people in a pandemic you phoney liberal motherfucker. You belong in a Dickens novel.” pic.twitter.com/kRRx9DdAbp

— Jake Offenhartz (@jangelooff) July 8, 2020

The next day, the tenants reached an agreement with Gendville, who promised they would have until August 1st to vacate. But she became "infuriated" by their request to put the agreement in writing, tenants said. On Monday, her and Brooks-Church, accompanied by their two dogs, maintenance workers, and three children, entered the house and started threatening residents, according to multiple tenants.

"I'm in my room listening to Death Grips. It's loud, and all of a sudden Loretta swings open the door, gets in my face, calls me a trespasser and tells me to 'get the fuck out,'" recalled one 22-year-old tenant, who declined to give their name for fear of being sued by the landlord. "She grabs my wrist to block me from locking the door. I'm scared out of my mind."

it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes ... GUILLOTINE!!! (chop)

this seems...horrific? but what do i know

Here's how the eviction crisis will impact each state. https://t.co/Yl5aDvu2Ar pic.twitter.com/1v2DjrS4sy

— CNBC (@CNBC) July 27, 2020

People overuse this metaphor but we really are the coyote, suspended in midair, just as he’s realised the road ran out about thirty yards back

it's a time bomb waiting to explode.

i don't know how Governors think this will just go away.

merely extending moratoriums on the actual procedure just allows landlords to continue to seek past due amounts and even serve paperwork up until the point of getting the Sheriff. 2,000+ ready to be evicted the day Florida's moratorium goes.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/america-is-facing-an-eviction-crisis-as-moratoriums-expire-this-is-a-potential-catastrophe-2020-07-23

Forgiving or canceling rent would mean that landlords would seek assistance rather than tenants.

whoa whoa whoa hold on there buddy

it sounds like you want..... those with accumulated wealth to..... shoulder the risk???? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

tell me another one! this guy

THIS IS AMERICA, MAN

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe
She begged for rent forgiveness
Landlord said "fuck you"

Shorting the S & P 500 when Tombot started this thread would have netted you 100% gains in about 15 months, not bad.

Going long would have also netted you 100%, but only after 11 years

landlords pay tax on rental income ... residential tenants rarely get to deduct rent as an expense, and states with renter's credits -- those credits are pretty small potatoes compared to the tax situation for landlords. Having a, idk, plan at the federal level that keeps tenants safely housed but deals with the economic impact to landlords seems like the most reasonable thing to do from even a politically moderate perspective.

I have been a renter for nineteen years. In very good times, i rented a condo in venice beach, in bad times I went week-to-week in a windowless attic walk-up in washington state, an unheated sublet-of-a-sublet in oregon, a ramshackle triple-decker in massachusetts with holes in teh ceiling, and eventually worked my way back to half of a craftsman... where I'm sitting typing now. and more. i've dealt with massive management companies, owner/occupants, and out-of-state little-old-ladies subsidizing their retirement with the house their families once owned. I've been evicted due to job loss and poverty, and I've had a building sold out from underneath me. I've been denied affordable units because of a credit score, and (softly) because of racism against my partner. only once, in those nineteen, years have i had a landlord operate fully above-board, with legal tax status, and with any sort of concern for my well-being. I don't want to say 'screw all landlords,' because I know there are people who are great landlords... but it's really hard to summon an equal amount of sympathy for people who seek to profit off their landholdings as it is to feel for the hundreds of millions of renters who are about to be out on their asses.

millions. not hundreds of millions. point stand.

being a landlord is running a business. i think it's fine to bail out businesses, including landlords, but i have no idea why we are talking about bailing out landlords ahead of daycares and restaurants. it's expensive, it helps relatively few people, and the people it helps are on average wealthy.

Landlord can't pay mortgage/taxes --> landlord gets foreclosed on --> property may not be available for rent anymore (banks don't want to be landlords, and even if they sell it to another would-be landlord this takes a lot of time) --> multiply this enough times and you get reduced housing availability for renters.

Just give the houses to the people renting them for free

And make the landlords get real jobs

Landlord can't pay mortgage/taxes --> landlord gets foreclosed on --> property may not be available for rent anymore (banks don't want to be landlords, and even if they sell it to another would-be landlord this takes a lot of time) --> multiply this enough times and you get reduced housing availability for renters.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, July 28, 2020 5:24 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

fail a running a business, sell assets to public.

right, but the reality is sell assets to bank via foreclosure, that's what actually happens.

ah, i didn't realize we were talking about a world with only one option.

buildings also likely to fall into disrepair in the meantime.

There isn't "only one option," but no one is buying a rental property where you can't expect to have tenants that can pay the rent, and in many cases a short sale is not possible

i mean i'm aware why public ownership doesn't happen (it's illegal in california, for a start), but the idea that bailing out landlords is in the top ten things we could be doing with our (allegedly finite) money in this emergency is preposterous.

buildings also likely to fall into disrepair in the meantime.

it doesn't magically become unoccupied. a bank taking possesion of a home has no rights to evict tenants beyond those the original landlord has. in fact i think they are more constrained, at least in CA.

Welcome to America. The president is a landlord. Other options for renters will rely soley on the kindness of their own landlord. The government will most definitely come down on the side of evictions.

i have never had a landlord do any repairs to any place i ever rented.

on the other hand, i have definitely had landlords immediately renovate a place i'd just vacated and start charging double the rent to the next people.

i have never had a landlord do any repairs to any place i ever rented.

― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, July 28, 2020 3:30 PM (five minutes ago)

where have you lived that this is legal

As if landlords adhere to the law...