Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

Ok, what about The Guardian audience?

yeah i know i was just being trenchant. good slice of the Graun audience likely just as ignorant. none of it the same as contextless sharing pro-Nazi stuff, of course.

Guardian doesn’t even bother covering the 12th and its increase in genocidal rhetoric every year, idk why the murals piece would be better than that.

A former editor writes.

pic.twitter.com/rarZFva66c

— Conrad Landin (@conradlandin) July 20, 2020

when Rusbridger laid down his 10 ideas for Open Journalism he never mentioned no 11: it's actually an observer piece

kinder/ogmor: I can't share our data, but the Reuters DNR says broadly similar things. Full site here: http://www.digitalnewsreport.org/survey/2020/overview-key-findings-2020/

Key bits:
Trust in sources, UK:
https://i.imgur.com/nR22Ftf.png

Lol Print is fucked:
https://i.imgur.com/9z5QtTx.png

Objective vs "partisan" (this is global figure, UK not broken out here):
https://i.imgur.com/cn9h8CQ.png

Global print figure also eesh:
https://i.imgur.com/7PRFjCh.png

lol the trust in tv news sources table does not reflect the order of trust i'd give them

Yeah on that, it's amazing how much trust in the BBC in particular has declined among what the report calls the "more-partisan" - people who class themselves as very-left or very-right

https://i.imgur.com/ylFotUO.png

attitudes must lag a fair bit behind reality, Sky is pretty widely considered to have a good news output nowadays and from what i see of it it's certainly no more partisan or plain dumb than the big terrestrial stations.

and who the hell are all these people trusting local newspapers, which have always been consistently right wing, sensationalist and plain sloppy?

I only trust commenters on local newspaper websites

Lol qft

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.

xps to Pinefox

"I find it an interesting comparison; not really sure what the right conclusion is."

these brave lads on represented on the stamps didn't just do their Third Reich national service in various extermination centres that liquidated numbers greater than the entire population of Belfast twenty times over and then some more and they also made up the volunteer auxiliary police units doing the einsatzgruppen's mass killing of jews for them. To just put them on display without any context at all other than "here is some anti-Soviet resistance art" is deeply deeply fucked up is the right conclusion to come to!

attitudes must lag a fair bit behind reality,

There's a huge lag on this I'd say, same reason companies are able to get away with cutting corners for a long time before their customers start complaining

and who the are all these people trusting local newspapers,

People trust the idea of a local newspaper, they assume local newspapers are either neutral or just about roadworks.

To a large degree people have already decided what a media outlet or figure has said before they've said it (and don't really register what they actually said), which is why it doesn't really matter what Owen Jones or Toby Young actually say. The perception is more important than the reality - local newspapers avoid this because the perception is that they are mundane and, by extension, unbiased

People trust the idea of a local newspaper, they assume local newspapers are either neutral or just about roadworks.

Given the circulation figures for local press, a lot of people responding to that question will be trusting the likes of the Liverpool Echo rather than eg. the Woking News & Mail.

people trusting local papers seems like it's part of the same phenomenon as people trusting local government more than national govt and national govt more than the EU, it feels closer and therefore more accountable, like you theoretically could influence its trajectory if you wanted to (whether this is true or not)

also that they have a better understanding of you and your life and circumstances - though isn't it the case that increasingly local newspapers are owned by the same small number of publishers and share centrally produced content, the genuinely 'local' content is diminishing?

when i last got a look at the operation of my local paper, 20 years ago probably, it had 4 journalists tops. yeah my understanding is a lot of local papers are owned by bigger publishers, you can see the shared style if you look at the websites or layouts of a bunch of locals.

I've been saying forever that local newspapers will be the last to go. Go, they will, but they'll outlast the national and bigger regional ones. A local is closer to its audience, that tires of big (inter-)national scandals they've already seen on telly/internet/twitter/fb and grand oPinIoNs way quicker than of what happened to their neighbours neighbours, or the town 2 miles away.
People trusting local newspapers is because - when done good - they are part of that newspaper, they can easily be involved in the creation of it. Accountability, like soref said, also a big factor at play. A good, independent (!) local newspaper (not the sort of copy paste rags that soref talks about at the end of his post) serves a community of readers that identifies as that community, and allows interaction between newspaper and community.

Sincerely,

Editor-in-chief of an independent local newspaper,
LBI

:)

i'm not sure that those exist in the UK

Also: charge for your paper, make it subscription only. You can't expect people to care about something that's given to/forced upon them for free.

xp Alas, branching out to the UK is juuuust outside of our budget ;)

They make take our lives but they will never take our freedom to print photos of councillors pointing at potholes!

Otm! :D

aren't most of the UK local rags all owned by the Trinity Mirror group or something like that now? I rarely click on mine these days because the assault by adware is too much.

it's been downhill for the shropshire star since they dropped BUNION

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_P5-KXUCbsI8/TKIGJD03UWI/AAAAAAAAU5Q/of4eVYnVRvU/s1600/Bunion+1959-10-09.jpg

that cartoon is... good?

Yes.

i'd forgotten Bunion! he was also in the Express & Star which was likely the same company as the Shropshire Star

UK local newspapers are mostly a hellscape owned by people like Gannet, published centrally, with one 20-year-old J-grad on the staff writing for four different papers without leaving the office.

The difference in them from just 15 years ago is really depressing. It was always going to be bad, but the profit-stripping has made it exponentially worse. There is still room for good businesses and journalism to be had there, but Gannet etc distort the market so badly they’ll never get the chance.

that Bunion strip is v good, aargh at the presumable microfiche elements all over it

Four journalists would be unparalleled luxury for most local papers at this stage. They used to serve as training slopes for the nationals and published a lot of flimsy or irrelevant crap but they were when properly funded a vehicle for keeping councils accountable and that's largely gone now.

Anvil OTM that people trust the idea of a local newspaper rather than the paper itself, the vast majority of respondents won't have read theirs in years, it's more of a generalised feel that because something's local it's more likely to be on their side. Or they're just using it to find out when the local Sainsburys is open over Easter or whatever.

I created a free account to read the Guardian today!

Because they were urging me to do it and requiring me to press buttons to get to pages.

(xp) They're good for following schools sports competitions complete with heartwarming pics of under-9 judo champions holding up their trophies etc

brb going to start a kickstarter for the BUNION graphic novel collection

i only look at websites not the real thing nowadays but i'm pretty sure local papers are mostly good for following shock horror stories about petty crims and then writing comments about hanging petty crims

The comments sections are terrifying hellscapes as well.

at least when it was just a letters page the psychos had to be committed enough to buy stationery and a stamp.

Seems like local news press is simultaneously always hailed as the foundation of a functional news system nationwide yet itself only good for trivial stories with minimal reach.

Lamb owner left 'sickened' after finding animal beheaded in field
Police have ruled out other animals causing the injury

some skulduggery afoot in Denby Dale, police have been questioning some of the usual suspects!

xp

there's a lot of mythology and sentimental posturing behind that take which relied on avoiding the fact that the majority of the national press has always been about sensationalism, invading people's privacy and generally acting the cunt too.

if anybody endangered the idea of a free press it was people who used the 1 percent of investigations that uncover serious political corruption to justify the 99 percent of investigations into who somebody off Strictly has been shagging and what's on their answerphone

Manchester Evening News produces about 4 good pieces of journalism a year and the good impact of those is easily outweighed by the psychic harm done by the reams and reams of sensationalism and misery they churn out

MEN is a big newspaper though innit, in comparison to smalltown publications? Just pointing out the editor of the Hudds Examiner is called Wayne Ankers.

Is there such a thing as a decent local daily in this day and age? The Evening Standard has been considered a joke or an irrelevance by Londoners for a long time. How's the Yorkshire Post these days?

For the best of humanity you really need to read the comment sections on crime news. Bring back hanging, never mind deporting the bastards - execute them etc... Yorkshire Post is a Tory rag so it doesn't get many clicks from me, the news section seems like they might employ a few actual journalists.

Probably even lower in quality than the ES

haven't looked at a Yorkshire Post in forever, the Hull Daily Mail is so entrenched round here that the YP was only read by the solicitor class i think

since someone was asking abt this on twitter (the only good place) does any local alt.media survive these days up yr way NV or calz or anyone not london-based? this was the competitor in the 70s that piously hoped to keep local coverage more radical and more honest (the rochdale alternative press was the first place to run stories exposing lib MP and paedo abuser cyril smith for example, at some risk to themselves)

this layer of media wd by definition i think have to be urban, bcz its content basis was listings (on the time out model) supplemented by small ads. the internet has totally stripped out the latter (gumtree etc) but doesn't actually serve the former very well, as anyone will testify who tries to navigate time out on-line to find out what there is to do on a free day in london

(as a dedicated city limits reader, i always hated and boycotted time out and disliked its aesthetic as well as its latterday (a)political choices-- tho i'm happy these days to accept that mid-late 80s CL has since spawned more dangers than TO, self included no doubt lol)