Posts you had second thought about and decided not to post - put them here

I can totally see Mark Wahlberg playing that dude

i for one don't fucking care about your trans credentials. you're a goddamn creep who makes this board a worse place to be for multiple people. xp

I didn't engage Brad. Brad inserted themself into a piece of advice I was giving to the father of an AFAB child who was coming out as maybe lesbian / bisexual / nonbinary - and was tailored specifically for an AFAB person, because I was speaking about an AFAB person - and started screaming at me because they felt this piece of advice (which was never aimed at them) did not adequately cover their specific experience.

Brad started this, and was not the slightest bit interested in engaging with me or listening to me.

You're a bunch of playground bullies, shouting that I'm the bully. It's just absurd.

You are transphobic as fuck to me, you're misogynist as hell, and yet accuse me of "hating trans women" to cover your own bullying.

You have no interest in any experience outside your own self-righteousness, but you scream that I'm a "narcissist" if I defend myself in any way.

go steamroll over some other people who aren't on ilxor.com for god's sake

You're a narcissist bully and you're a transphobe trying to bully a nonbinary person off a forum. Congratulations!

You are now exactly what you accuse me of being.

what you want I should bully myself off the forum then?

i'm a transphobe. all i can say is go fuck yourself you worthless piece of shit xp

i'm out

You're trying to bully a nonbinary trans person off a forum. That is what you are trying to do right now.

so I guess we didn't have second thoughts after all

I am a nonbinary trans person, and you are all screaming and swearing and trying to bully me off the board. Do you want to take a look at yourselves right now? Seriously?

you're also a person. who acts like a piece of shit. and yes, please leave.

You're the one swearing at me. And I will not leave, because a bunch of tranphobic bullies think I should.

well then i sure as shit hope the flag function works soon, in the meantime there's killfile

can't say i've ever been a huge branwell fan but bb does not deserve this treatment right now and y'all need to chill

Pretty sure they have me killfiled so in the interests of anyone reading, this:

Brad inserted themself into a piece of advice I was giving to the father of an AFAB child who was coming out as maybe lesbian / bisexual / nonbinary - and was tailored specifically for an AFAB person, because I was speaking about an AFAB person - and started screaming at me because they felt this piece of advice (which was never aimed at them) did not adequately cover their specific experience.

tbf i was basically screaming but, like, whatever. all this deserves screaming. brad is a great poster who contributes a lot. yeah, i'm really mad about how this all went down. and gyac is otm.

Agreed w mookieproof

And sarahell is extremely otm here

If you hate Branwell so much just killfile them, god, stop making it such an issue, nobody wants to read this fucking horseshit

gyac: I disagree, Brad got his back up very quickly

===

Look

The issue, as far as I can tell, is that Branwell started using AMAB to refer to not only the people that term is intended for (transwomen, AMAB enbys) but also, more broadly, to the cis gay men who populate the LGBTQ thread

I get why it's offensive-- and I did it too, and I apologize. I will not stop using AMAB because it applies to me, and I like it, and it is useful. I will stop using it to also refer to cis gay men, which I did, and I apologize for

Everything else still stands

Screaming "transphobic" at anybody and everything is counter-productive

Attempting to bully people off the board is ugly and execrable and stop doing it

And also I don't really dislike anybody on this board except silby right now for telling me to fuck you, but whatever, I just flagged a few posts about it and I feel better now

using AMAB to refer to not only the people that term is intended for (transwomen, AMAB enbys

Would you do me a big fat favor and not use it to refer to anyone

I don't have you killfiled, gyac, I'm actually following my own advice of not getting into discussions with people I don't think I will learn anything from.

I did think there was a chance, that if map and silby actually sat down and exercised some empathy and tried to understand that they are doing The Shitty Thing to someone from their own community, they might actually stop and reconsider? This is a thing that queer people do out of queer rage and queer pain - they attack other queer people. Sometimes you can empathise people into "we are both coming from a place of pain" and sometimes other people are too deep into their own pain to care.

and for the record another poster contacted me privately and was also pretty upset about the amab stuff branwell posted in the queer thread. it made for a really unpleasant and deeply unwelcome experience and now one of my favorite posters is gone.

using AMAB to refer to not only the people that term is intended for (transwomen, AMAB enbys

Would you do me a big fat favor and not use it to refer to anyone

― all cats are beautiful (silby), Friday, July 31, 2020 3:26 PM (fifty-five seconds ago)

Especially not trans women, for Christ’s sake

holy shit branwell you are such a fucking gaslighter. also goon tie with all due respect go fuck yourself.

bb does not deserve this treatment right now and y'all need to chill

this is otm. branwell and I have fruitlessly talked past each other many times in the past, but this has descended to bullying and I know where my fps will be parceled

so I guess we didn't have second thoughts after all

lol

Fair enough, BB, so you can go and talk in the No Boys thread about how ilx younger people don’t understand you, but you’re the one determined to make our opinions be a one way street. You can talk and we have to listen and take it but anything going the opposite way, nothing. That’s your right but you have to be honest about it.

silby gdi I am literally in therapy about my own transition and in constant discussion about this shit and I have no fucking clue why a very useful and simple term that is used so commonly by transpeople in discussion about this shit is so upsetting to you

Apologies in my last post for misgendering Brad btw sorry Brad

What use is it, ontologically

Gyac, I listen to people who have more experience than me, who are wiser than me, and who have more relevant knowledge than me.

Like this:

gdi I am literally in therapy about my own transition and in constant discussion about this shit and I have no fucking clue why a very useful and simple term that is used so commonly by transpeople in discussion about this shit is so upsetting to you

It can be a hugely helpful way of resolving conflicts in mixed-space settings, to address where you are coming from, how you were raised, what things were forbidden to you, what things were violently and nonconsensually forced upon you - and how the same things which are useful and helpful to you, might feel hurtful and oppressive to someone else, but you both have the right to get your needs met. We've resolved a lot of issues between enby people going in different directionalities by discussing those directionalities. We don't get very far by simply banning words.

It’s useful in discussing with a parent of a child who is coming out as genderqueer, for example, as the experience is different for children who have been assigned and raised male as opposed to assigned and raised female

assigned butchered at birth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtf9QH8KhkA

Like in an enby space, where (deliberately frivolous example) some people are like "I want to express my gender through dresses! and pretty make-up! and glitter nail varnish and all the stuff that was denied to me while I was growing up! This is enby culture!" and some people are like "Ugh, I HATE dresses, get make-up the fuck away from me, I was forced to wear that shit and I never want to see it ever again, enby culture is boots and flannel and buzz cuts!" - it is a way of helping people to understand their differences, and that they can both be right, that where "enby" is located depends so much on where you are coming from.

And using these terms to express where you are coming from, "I was assigned female, I was forced to do some things, I was denied the right to do other things" can be very helpful shortcuts. Maybe generalisations, sure, but shortcuts can be useful, too.

I have no idea what discourse exists that has silby apparently starting at a 10.1 on the rageometer as soon as someone uses [an awkward initialism that probably had greater utility when applied specifically to intersex ppl, idk if it's robbing them of a linguistic tool or w/e though] but it's quite funny that they have their current username during this clusterfoofooraw

all gender is drag, come back Brad, map mb chill out and take a walk?

I’m posting calmly as I always do

Whiney's youtube comes across as more chill than u, silby ...

tho Whiney _is_ Dave Cool

I’d never suggest I’m calmer and cooler than Whiney, famously our coolest poster

https://thepoodleanddogblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451580669e2019101acaa1d970c

^^ Whiney in his new career

more like sunset strip glam rock puppies imo

When I first started transitioning, there were men on this forum who started entire threads board lawyering for the right to deadname me

btw other posters may have broader memories or a grasp on timelines that make the following observation less specifically relevant, but just while I'm here:

many ilx0rs have quietly announced that they are transitioning, or changing their pronouns, or personal concept of gender, or login name, and had the other posters adapt to this without fanfare or conflict.

a handful of ilx0rs have also started posting under new names but pretended that they weren't the same person, and been met with distrust and conflict. the conflict and distrust typically escalates the more the new poster insists that they aren't the old poster, and are a completely different person. this occurs regardless of the announced gender of of the new poster.

o xpost

it's a coding joke -- the GIS was for "hipster dog python"

if someone wants to snakesplain that that in fact is not "python" -- i am totally ok with that

many ilx0rs have quietly announced that they are transitioning, or changing their pronouns, or personal concept of gender, or login name, and had the other posters adapt to this without fanfare or conflict.

You know what? I'd have loved to do it this way. I'd have loved to have had the chance to do it this way. I tried to do it really quietly, and discreetly - it was like 2012, I was barely out to myself and my therapist. I didn't want to draw attention to myself, I didn't want to have to explain new and painful stuff and my whole history to people who were often hostile. Other people got to do it quietly - but the usual people on this forum seized on it, started interrogating my motives, accused me of trying to deceieve them, they wouldn't leave it alone, they kept repeatedly deadnaming me and making an issue out of it like I owed each and every one of them a personal explanation.

It was that thing where so many other people got to just be like "name change: be cool" and everyone just went along with it. But I didn't get that benefit of the doubt.

I was short and shirty with like the 10th person to dispute my name - not even rude, and certainly not on the level of swearing and insults and abusiveness that other posters on this thread have shown to me tonight, just shirty - and boom! A board lawyering thread, about whether they should have the right to know a poster's complete personal history, deadname and everything. It took FGTI to point out how transphobic that idea was.

That *happened* and I'm not having it handwaved away or diminished or justified that it was OK.

Without trying to be combative, or telling you that you handled things wrongly, or that you should have known exactly what to do to handle a gradual transition in a public space, I'm just noting that

It was that thing where so many other people got to just be like "name change: be cool" and everyone just went along with it. But I didn't get that benefit of the doubt

... is not the situation that was .

My recollection - and again, I may have plenty of this wrong: other posters who aren't BB please correct anything fundamentally inaccurate, I'm only typing to try and annotate for bystanders reading the thread -- is that the sequence went

On a board where it was extremely common for people to run short and long-term sock puppets, and still is semi-common for people who've flounced or been banned to come back as socks, a new poster appeared and kept talking about their gender and how classically male they were, and otherwise talked about specific interests of a long-term poster who had stopped posting a handful of hours before this new poster turned up.
Plenty of people assumed this was simply a new login name for the old poster, and - in the manner that ilx0rs still continue in 2020 to call their board colleagues by a real or fake name that they're customarily known as, addressed the new poster by the old poster's name in a spirit of inclusive friendship, demonstrating familiarity and affection by recognising the poster's voice. If they were only encountering New Poster on the threads of mutual interest, they weren't even aware of the repeated declarations of gender on other threads.

New Poster did not say "name change: be cool," they repeatedly argued that they were not Old Poster and that other people were not only wrong but in the wrong, and being dicks (non-gender-specific) by saying NP was OP. A couple of people went "er, if you want me to act like that I will, sure" and other people took the obvious untruth as being disrespectful, and poor sock-puppetry.

--

Later, and separately, Old Poster changed their login again (possibly after a period of reverting to their prior login?), and once again people recognised the voice and genially addressed them under the single-syllable name they already knew said poster by.
IIRC, at different points, the poster gave the reason for the name change as being to associate their general online identity with a name they were already using for visual art, and to avoid IRL drama associating their ILXing with their meatworld name. Assuming they were making early, tentative steps toward transition or different presentation, they were under no obligation to announce this in a public space, but likewise nobody in that space could be expected to not take the stated reasons at face value. When some ppl addressed Old Poster by a common one-syllable IRL name also used IRL and on ILX by multiple other posters, they were taken aback to be accused of nigh-doxxing, as this prima facie did not make sense.

Again, Old Poster Under New Name did not say "name change: be cool," in any way that people could be expected to hear. Old Poster expected every other of the thousand or w/e active posters on ILX to read every single post that Old Poster made in every thread, so when people bumped into Old Poster and called them "one syllable name," Old Poster did not say "hi there, it's BB now btw" and link them to a quiet announcement post saying "name change: be cool." Old Poster frequently blew up at individuals who were showing casual friendship by recognising OP, bemoaning that OP had been asking not to be called that name in multiple other posts, and that it was rude, or dangerous, or insulting, or assaultive, for someone to not have read those posts.

Friction was caused by this mode of reaction, possibly more than understanding was. Many people were also already much less inclined to grant "that benefit of the doubt" due to the sustained gaslighting that Old Poster had engaged in during the earlier name change.

--

Then eventually it became clear that Old Poster wished to be addressed as Branwell, and... everyone began addressing them as Branwell (or a shorter affectionate two-syllable diminutive, just as they had previously).

--

None of this is to say that Old Poster ought to have known the best way to handle it, or should have had a clear picture of their gender journey flash on like a light switch in their mind, or that some old-school arseholes wouldn't have been rude or aggressively refused to be cool about a "name change" be cool. Just describing some things that *happened*.

Sorry for sentence fragment in par 1.

(Also fwiw I remember all this ^^ drama, but I still have almost no idea what Branwell's situation is regarding personal gender conception, or presentation, or transition, or pronouns. So it's easy to believe that even people who were being aggressive or assholey on putative board lawyering threads in 2012 were not being transphobic, or wilfully engaging in deadnaming.)

maybe if a significant portion of a community, including people who have known and dealt with you irl, feel that a community is bad for you and your mental well-being.. it’s bad for you!

and maybe those communities that you feel accepted in are good for you. just off the cuff here, gotta find your own people and accept that some people are not meant to be your people