A Paler Shade of White---Sasha Frere-Jones Podcast and New Yorker article Criticizing Indie Rock for Failing to Incorporate African-American Influences

if it contributes to the discussion any the 1st time i ever noticed sasha frere jones i thought he was black (it was for that big wu-tang discography)

i think was confusing him with sacha jenkins from ego trip

i think a lot of people are responding because they want to look smarter than sfj

actually i think a lot of people post to ILX because they want to look smarter than the person above them

http://www.eyejammie.com/sacha-party/DSC_3465.jpg
im pretty sure this dude listens to arcade fire too

i thought sfj was black for a minute. i forget why. maybe he has succeeded in incorporating african-american influences. he can sometimes write about hip-hop w/o making me cringe. still hes no nathan rabin.

why all the "VU are uber-white" stuff? they are easily the most doo-wop influenced of any 60s rock band i can think of.

Most doo-wop influenced 60s rock band? Boy, wait'll you hear the Beach Boys...

Good point, though. Just a few obvious examples off the top of my head that contradict the VU's alleged whiteyness: "There She Goes Again" ripping off Marvin Gaye's "Hitch-Hike," and the debt "Sister Ray" owes to Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor (Reed admits as much in the Up-Tight book).

i thought sfj was black too

then again i lived a good portion of my life thinking tracy chapman was a white guy based on fast car

people, just cuz we are talking about indie doesn't mean we have to debate the merits of VU

2. "him talking about his struggles to sing with his funk band"
In response to Reply # 0

tie into the posts i made last week about the Dap-Kings and their "authenticity" problem (and solution)

btw i might add that until maybe 3 weeks ago, i believed that Sasha Frere-Jones was black... i understand that many people make that mistake, though

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tie into the posts i made last week about the Dap-Kings and their "authenticity" problem (and solution)

???

thank god he found the solution!

i thot sfj was a white chick based on a review of the clash he did

his brother is a really terrific typographer

i'd love to see jess and sfj lezz out

ew

I thought sfj was a 40ish white guy based on tidybeard.jpg

you mean jessica???

jessica hopper vs strongo hulkington

jess and sasha pictorial. awes

i thought al shipley was patrick fischler based on quirkyindiemovie.mpg

congrats on now having 2 stock shipley zings. maybe now you can work on coming up with a 2nd shakey mo zing.

temendoid i don't get what you are saying. is that some kind of unconscious freudian racism?

this just strikes me like those conversations about how white america was afraid of elvis' hips -- they were just as afraid of him legitimizing the black dicks that the music still represented more like.

and you took it the logical step further but yeah. we can argue the accuracy of sfj's descriptors and drag in sales numbers, counterexamples, etc. but once we get past how foolish the article is we're left debating the state of sfj's mind, and maybe others like him. i think he's using rhythm, syncopation et al as a stand-in for 'balls' and he wishes white guys with guitars would be perceived as exemplars of(or at least default to) his version of cool like they were 'way back when' instead of ceding that space to others, and for some reason he thinks using 'black musical elements' is the only way towards doing that. it's silly cos instead of waiting for arcade fire or whoever to move in his preferred direction he could just decide to identify with whoever is doing that, and that could be black people or whoever in a perfect world but plenty of white people fit the bill, that's what stumping me. i honestly think he's got a wonderfully passive-aggressive essay in him addressing indie fan attitudes but until he decides to write it he's incapable of anything more clear than this with regard to this 'issue'.(i should talk i know, but i don't get paid for this shit)

maybe you can loan me some from your 90-minute daily lab sessions of coming up with weak slams towards nobodies like alfred soto

people are trying to actually talk without it being all ZING ZANG ZONG here, ethan, go revive the rolling snap thread so you can son me there if you really have to

btw i might add that until maybe 3 weeks ago two days ago, i believed that Sasha Frere-Jones was black

i haven't read a whole lot from him but still

gotta wonder how much different a piece like this, or the reaction to it, would be if it was coming from, say, Greg Tate.

let's watch!...

i have a feeling greg tate wouldn't write such a shoddy article. also this kind of piece is only ever written by white dudes. not that it has to be, but i am sure greg tate would be approaching this from a completely diff angle.

funny how sfj seemed like such a relief after the nyer's occasional use of nick hornby

greg tate\\\ "my indie rock band burnt sugar was never able to believably incorporate the sounds of pavement and other authentically white bands."

xpost Tremendoid I wasn't sure at first because SFJ's use of miscegenation is so off-base but I think you're really on to something there. Masculinity in indie rock culture is in a really weird place right now--Witness the awkward dudes I know who listen to wolf eyes and wear bad clothes and are really into their bikes who refer to most average white dudes as "Bros," a term which totally has its place, but in this case all those bros are going to clubs or fratty parties and listening to rap.

maybe you can loan me some from your 90-minute daily lab sessions of coming up with weak slams towards nobodies like alfred soto

haha ethan i like you becuase you think of ILX as the internet WWE

maybe you can loan me some from your 90-minute daily lab sessions of coming up with weak slams towards nobodies like alfred soto

ethan only slams the dangerous and high-profile, he is truly living on the edge

you should know, you're considered "big game" back at the zing lodge.

god this podcast is terrible. this shit is just str8 retarded.

<b>You describe in your article that part of the great thing about music before this split happened is that it was hard to tell the difference sometimes between black and white music.</b>

<i>Right, and you've got Nirvana, who I think were the greatest rock band of the 90s, easily. You've got Dave Grohl, who's a phenomenal drummer. His beat for "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - that's a dance song. One of the many reasons that song is about as good as one song can ever get. It's already, like, <b>nine different kinds of music</b>, and his beat for it is, like a hard, slightly modified funk beat."

yeah the podcast was much worse than the article

Nine different kinds! Jeepers, would you name them all, please?

the New Yorker has become a flyer for the worst internet radio show ever.

http://www.omg-ponies.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/most_dangerous_game.jpg

1) pixies
2) pixies
3) pixies
4) pixies
5) dinosaur jr.
6) mudhoney
7) boston
8) boston
9) boston

i also love the "slightly modified funk beat"...modified ever so slightly to the point where it is not actual a funk beat at all.

6) mudhoney

you misspelled "modified funk" (xpost)

Aren't the drums on "Smells Like Teen Spirit" entirely overdubbed from session guys?

His beat for "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - that's a dance song.

Did he really say this?

"black" francis.

http://www.cdmarket.eu/img/364f1f49e2426a7b476f4f1a5ef66fdc.jpg

masters of the "slightly modified funk beat"

xpost

that shit above, minus my dumb wrong html things, is transcribed word for word. honest.

Aren't the drums on "Smells Like Teen Spirit" entirely overdubbed from session guys?

waht? i've never heard this

His beat for "Machinehead"--that's a dance song.